The Greatest Innings Ever Played

[Richard]

was a bit of a random one to dig tbh...

Nothing unusual for the particular account behind said dig... this thread is merely unusual in that it wasn't created by dass\deira\dubai194\vastu shastra\Mard.

 

[Burgey]

So many great ones to choose from.

Think I'll go with Bradman's 254 at Lord's, on the strength of the greatest batsman ever describing it as his greatest ever innings.

 

[Uppercut]

The recent SA tail end arse saving effort was awesome too.

JP Duminy's was certainly one of my favourite innings to watch. I don't believe he played a false shot for the entire thing. He just kept on knocking off the runs calmly and without fuss when everything was falling apart, to the point where it was a given that any runs the tail score would effectively count double. I barely even noticed when he was nearing his century.

Another one from last year that was great to watch- Ashwell Prince at Headingley.

 

[Prince EWS]

I presume there must have been a thread on this subject before but hopefully this will provide a new slant on it.

I have just acquired a little book in a series of “Statistical Meanderings” by CPW Jonkers the point of which is to assess innings statistically with a view to thereby deciding which is the greatest innings ever.

He uses 5 factors:-

F1.Runs scored

Jonker’s takes the cube root of this in his calculation

F2. Quality of Pitch

To get a figure for this he divides 150 by (2 x the average runs per wicket for the match in question plus 3 x the average runs per wicket for the innings in which the runs are scored)

F3. Quality of Bowlers

The average bowling average when Jonkers wrote this was 28 so you calculate the average of the averages of the bowlers involved as at the date of the match weighted with reference to the number of overs they bowl and divide 28 by that figure.

F4. Speed of Innings

Jonkers would have liked to have used runs per 100 balls as the measure but as that is often not available for older innings he uses the individual innings runs per over. He then divides the innings figure by the overall test average (1.5 in his day) and you have F4

F5. Innings relative to that of other batsmen

The way he works this out is complicated but it is intended to be a measure of the dominance of the innings under consideration – if this thread attracts interest I will set it out in detail.

Jonkers considers F2 and F3 to be twice as important as F4 and F5

His rating is completed then by the following calculation

5F1 (2F2 + 2F3 + F4 + F5) divided by 3

Jonkers did this in 1992 – he admits only working it through on “about 30 well known innings” and his “Greatest Innings” on the basis of his formula was Graham Gooch’s 154* against W Indies at Headingley in 1991

I wonder where Sinclair's innings in this game would rate.

 

[chasingthedon]

Percy Fender wrote a book on the series and he said much the same, and that the only shot in the whole innings that he lifted off the deck was the one when he was out - a stunning catch at cover by Chapman - the Collingwood of his day by all accounts - and Fender was not a particular fan of Bradman so I'll take his word for it

Just looked at the Wisden report on the game - in commenting on his first day of batting, it said the England side fielded well and often brilliantly. As to Richard's wondering about the number of balls faced, cricinfo lists it as 376 BF and 341 minutes batting.

My personal favourite has to be Lara's 153* - no other batsman scored more than 38, and he basically re-awakened interest in cricket in the Caribbean.

 

[Something_Fishy]

Am absolutely stunned nobody thinks that AEJ Collins' knock (more like a barrage) is of enough significance even to comment about. If you didn't see it, look here.

I know it wasn't a Test match but ffs they guy was 13 (13! Imagine doing that when you were 13!) and I don't care how bad the bowling might have been, that is just incredible! And he did it (by my reckoning, anyway) at much more than a run a ball. If this does not receive any attention I'll bury my head in the sand and just accept that it will be forgotten forever.

 

[Evermind]

Am absolutely stunned nobody thinks that AEJ Collins' knock (more like a barrage) is of enough significance even to comment about. If you didn't see it, look here.

I know it wasn't a Test match but ffs they guy was 13 (13! Imagine doing that when you were 13!) and I don't care how bad the bowling might have been, that is just incredible! And he did it (by my reckoning, anyway) at much more than a run a ball. If this does not receive any attention I'll bury my head in the sand and just accept that it will be forgotten forever.

Woah. So WWI not only needlessly ruined large parts of Europe but also robbed the cricketing world of a possible Bradman.

 

[Richard]

Am absolutely stunned nobody thinks that AEJ Collins' knock (more like a barrage) is of enough significance even to comment about. If you didn't see it, look here.

I know it wasn't a Test match but ffs they guy was 13 (13! Imagine doing that when you were 13!) and I don't care how bad the bowling might have been, that is just incredible! And he did it (by my reckoning, anyway) at much more than a run a ball. If this does not receive any attention I'll bury my head in the sand and just accept that it will be forgotten forever.

There's really all sorts of things to consider about that innings. I just don't think you can remotely compare it to the sort of innings' which have been mentioned so far in this thread.

Some of the reasons for this are mentioned here.

 

[fredfertang]

Am absolutely stunned nobody thinks that AEJ Collins' knock (more like a barrage) is of enough significance even to comment about. If you didn't see it, look here.

I know it wasn't a Test match but ffs they guy was 13 (13! Imagine doing that when you were 13!) and I don't care how bad the bowling might have been, that is just incredible! And he did it (by my reckoning, anyway) at much more than a run a ball. If this does not receive any attention I'll bury my head in the sand and just accept that it will be forgotten forever.

Collins innings was played on a strange shaped pitch - the two straight boundaries were only 19 yards each - of the square boundaries one was 70 yards and the other unlimited - the 19 yard boundaries (and the 70 yard one as well for that matter) counted only two if they were reached and on the unlimited boundary all runs had to be completed - according to what I have read there were 146 of these 2 run boundaries in the innings and 1 six, 4 fives, 30 fours and 36 threes

So it could be argued his innings was worth more than 628 and equally, I suppose, that it was worth less.

He seems to have been dropped at least 4 times at 400ish, 566, 605 and 619

 

[Richard]

Woah. So WWI not only needlessly ruined large parts of Europe but also robbed the cricketing world of a possible Bradman.

Umm... no. Collins did not lose his life in WW1 a couple of years after this innings.

 

[Goocheslamb]

Nothing unusual for the particular account behind said dig... this thread is merely unusual in that it wasn't created by dass\deira\dubai194\vastu shastra\Mard.

yeah i am surprised this thread got so many replies in just 2 days, I just dug up it up because its a interesting thread. I wonder why people didn't find this question interesting back in august

 

[The Sean]

Woah. So WWI not only needlessly ruined large parts of Europe but also robbed the cricketing world of a possible Bradman.

Collins was 29 when he died in WWI, if he was going to be a Bradman he would have been by then.

 

[Something_Fishy]

There's really all sorts of things to consider about that innings. I just don't think you can remotely compare it to the sort of innings' which have been mentioned so far in this thread.

Some of the reasons for this are mentioned here.

Thanks for shedding some more light on this, really is quite interesting. Still seems quite remarkable (he must have been extremely fit running so much!), but yes, agree that you can't compare it to Test cricket. Wish we played long enough for me to get a score like that.

 

[Days of Grace]

How about Charles Bannerman's 165 retired hurt in the first test match ever played?

Cricinfo - 1st Test: Australia v England at Melbourne, Mar 15-19, 1877



How about this for a method of analysing the great innings?

1. Runs scored x quality of opposition (this quality of opposition calculation is my own, based on RPW home and away for each team over a certain period of time)

2. Divide number of runs scored by the average of other batsmen in the same innings.

Quite a simple calculation. You can also multiply the final score by strike-rate and give bonus points if the batsmen was chasing a 4th innings target, etc.

 

[Richard]

I don't know for sure, but I'd not be surprised if England had an underarm bowler, maybe two, in that team.

Not to say that Bannerman wouldn't have played well, but I think he played well in a slightly different game to that which has been played the last 80 years or so.

 

[gwo]

hmmmm - I may have slightly misexplained it - Mr Jonkers calculated 66.3 for Gooch and these others

Botham 149* Headingley 1981 65.4
Bradman 334 Headingley 1930 64.1
Jessop 104 The Oval 1902 62.9
Trumper 74 Melbourne 1903/04 61.2
Nourse 231 Jo'burg 1935/36 60.3
Sinclair 104 Cape Town 1902/03 60.1
Foster 287 Sydney 1903/04 58.9
Trumper 185 Sydney 1903/04 58.7
Amiss 262 Kingston 1973/74 58.6

He didn't claim to have done any others so wasn't intended to be a definitive list even when he did it (1992)

F1 5.484806552
F2 1.413094677
F3 1
F4 1.433333333
F5 0.894292929
Score 65.39549129


Bannermans 165*

I find it really hard to see how many innings could be more "dominant" by Jonker's criteria yet it still is .9 off Gooch.

 

[Days of Grace]

What did Lara's 153* get?

 

[Lillian Thomson]

What did Lara's 153* get?

Two tickets to a Barry Manilow concert.

 

[Richard]

At the Kensing (Ken) Kensington Oval (Kensington Oval)
The hottest spot north of Sabina
At the Kensing (Ken) Kensington Oval
Runs and scoring were always in 150s
At the Kensing.... he beat Australia



















(And remember - IT'S NOT SUPPOSED TO BE GOOD, JUST CORNY!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

[Days of Grace]

Richard posting whilst plastered. Priceless.