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The greatest cricketers from the subcontinent - how would you rank them?

S

subshakerz

International Coach
ankitj said:
Murali's aggregates are even better than Tendulkar's relative to others in their respective crafts. Tendulkar himself an enormous benchmark on that front. 6 wickets a match and fiver every 2nd test match for 133 tests is just mental, no matter what "holes" in the record exist. That's how I view it. Murali imo is the greatest bowler there has ever been.
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Yes it was a tremendous achievement but pound for pound Marshall, Hadlee, etc. were better.
 
ankitj

ankitj

Hall of Fame Member
Pretty much any statistical exercise (i.e. not subjective) ranks Murali as #1. See DoG's as an example:

DoG's Top 100 Test Bowlers Countdown Thread 100-1

I will post the top two together. Who will be no.1?
www.cricketweb.net

Bonus content:
ankitj said:
My favorite Murali statistic is his "peak" that lasted 11 years from start of 1998 to end of 2008 when he took 631 wickets in 90 matches at 19.94 and 7 wickets a match. That's Sydney Barnes, the #2 bowler of all time on this list, for >3x number of tests.



http://stats.espncricinfo.com/ci/en...8;spanval1=span;template=results;type=bowling
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Slifer

Slifer

International Captain
Well Imran the bowler with a sub 30 average in every country matches Sachin the batsman for consistency. Imran the bowler reached heights Sachin the batsman never touched. Imran's bowling and Sachin's batting roughly cancel each other out. Maybe Sachin is a little ahead. But Imran the batsman is much much better than Sachin the bowler. Therefore, Imran is the greatest Asian player. Don't even see how this is up for debate.
 
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S

subshakerz

International Coach
ankitj said:
Pretty much any statistical exercise (i.e. not subjective) ranks Murali as #1. See DoG's as an example:

DoG's Top 100 Test Bowlers Countdown Thread 100-1

I will post the top two together. Who will be no.1?
www.cricketweb.net

Bonus content:
Click to expand...
Yeah these measures will inevitably favor his sheer wickettaking output which is unmatched. But the question is whether sheer output can outweigh flaws and in my mind they don't. Poor records in the two countries with the best batting lineups will mean he can't be considered the best ever.
 
Slifer

Slifer

International Captain
subshakerz said:
Yeah these measures will inevitably favor his sheer wickettaking output which is unmatched. But the question is whether sheer output can outweigh flaws and in my mind they don't. Poor records in the two countries with the best batting lineups will mean he can't be considered the best ever.
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Wouldn't this also apply to Warne as well? His record home and away vs India was just as bad. Obviously, he couldn't play against his own batting lineup
 
Pap Finn Keighl

Pap Finn Keighl

International Debutant
Slifer said:
Well Imran the bowler with a sub 30 average in every country matches Sachin the batsman for consistency. Imran the bowler reached heights Sachin the batsman never touched. Imran's bowling and Sachin's batting roughly cancel each other out. Maybe Sachin is a little ahead. But Imran the batsman is much much better than Sachin the bowler. Therefore, Imran is the greatest Asian player. Don't even see how this is up for debate.
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Kapil is 2nd greatest SC cricketer then.

His bowling is equivalent of 45 batting avg
+ actual batting avg
Kapil = equivalent of 75 avg batsman.
 
h_hurricane

h_hurricane

International Vice-Captain
Pap Finn Keighl said:
Kapil is 2nd greatest SC cricketer then.

His bowling is equivalent of 45 batting avg
+ actual batting avg
Kapil = equivalent of 75 avg batsman.
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I rate Kapil highly but this is an incorrect way of adding up. You can't add an actual batting average like that. Kapil is ~ 20 runs better with the bat than an average tailender, not 30. Secondly the runs down the order aren't as good as the runs up the order as you don't bat as often.

I often see Kapil Dev the bowler as a moderate upgrade over Mark Waugh with the bat ( @mr_mister borrowing your term here). Add his batting, and he is a moderate upgrade over Steve Waugh at best.

Not sure if you were serious though.
 
Pap Finn Keighl

Pap Finn Keighl

International Debutant
h_hurricane said:
I rate Kapil highly but this is an incorrect way of adding up. You can't add an actual batting average like that. Kapil is ~ 20 runs better with the bat than an average tailender, not 30. Secondly the runs down the order aren't as good as the runs up the order as you don't bat as often.

I often see Kapil Dev the bowler as a moderate upgrade over Mark Waugh with the bat ( @mr_mister borrowing your term here). Add his batting, and he is a moderate upgrade over Steve Waugh at best.

Not sure if you were serious though.
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I wasn't serious,
But Moderate Upgrade over Mark Waugh + 20 extra runs means 65 avg Batsman.. Far better than Steve Waugh.
Slifer's logic works well in favor of Kapil.
 
Slifer

Slifer

International Captain
Pap Finn Keighl said:
I wasn't serious,
But Moderate Upgrade over Mark Waugh + 20 extra runs means 65 avg Batsman.. Far better than Steve Waugh.
Slifer's logic works well in favor of Kapil.
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It actually doesn't. Huh? Imran vs Sachin is all I was comparing. And imo, what I said makes some semblance of sense. Imran's bowling and Sachin's batting cancel each other out. But Imran was a better batsman than Sachin was a bowler.

Dev is not an all time great in either one of his traits.
 
Pap Finn Keighl

Pap Finn Keighl

International Debutant
Slifer said:
It actually doesn't. Huh? Imran vs Sachin is all I was comparing. And imo, what I said makes some semblance of sense. Imran's bowling and Sachin's batting cancel each other out. But Imran was a better batsman than Sachin was a bowler.

Dev is not an all time great in either one of his traits.
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Will you rank Pollock above Akram, Sachin and Viv in ODIs?
 
Pap Finn Keighl

Pap Finn Keighl

International Debutant
Migara said:
Fella has one of the ATG ERs in the game and only marginally second to Garner when era adjusted. He still was a very good wicket taker.
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Pollock ATG Bowler + Decent lower order bat (+ great fielder )
Mcgrath ATG bowler + zero batting.

Still majority rates Mcgrath > Pollock.

Just saying
 
F

Fuller Pilch

Hall of Fame Member
Slifer said:
Well Imran the bowler with a sub 30 average in every country matches Sachin the batsman for consistency. Imran the bowler reached heights Sachin the batsman never touched. Imran's bowling and Sachin's batting roughly cancel each other out. Maybe Sachin is a little ahead. But Imran the batsman is much much better than Sachin the bowler. Therefore, Imran is the greatest Asian player. Don't even see how this is up for debate.
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Plus captaincy
 
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