bagapath
International Captain
it is not only just T20. It is also just a domestic tournament. Dont read too much into it.
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The CW50 - No.4
- Thread starter The Sean
- Start date
bagapath
International Captain
I prefer the private hospital nurses myself.
Snobbish pig.
Ikki
Hall of Fame Member
With the amount of foreign stars in the IPL, it'd be selling it short to simply say it was "domestic". That's like saying the EPL (English Premiier League - football) is just a "domestic" league.
bagapath
International Captain
fine. by that definition you should call the county matches international, too.
bagapath
International Captain
I hope you gave more weight than warne to imran, border and gavaskar for leading their teams to victories in genuine international tournaments like world cups and world championship of cricket besides being record breaking test cricketers.
Ikki
Hall of Fame Member
They weren't really in a team of no hopers...you're not really getting what I am praising are you? Even had Warne lost the IPL title I'd still be saying what I am saying. He had an infectious winning spirit and he made people believe in the unlikely/magical. He did that in 99 WC when he was probably the biggest reason we won that tournament and RR were just another example.
bagapath
International Captain
Completely agree with that part. but the IPL info is totally irrelevant in selecting 25 greatest cricketers of all time.
BTW, kapil dev led a team of no hopers to a WC win and the power started shifting towards india. Imran won the 92 WC with a team that was on the brink of elimination more than once during the tournament. Border's victorious 87 WC captaincy has had more significant impact on international cricket in the long term than anything else. Warne's IPL captaincy is nothing compared to these achievements. And in choosing the best cricketers of all time, especially in the top 5 stage where we are at right now, none of these count.
good. that is why I say IPL is irrelevant.
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Ikki
Hall of Fame Member
To clarify further, the 3 you name were authoritarian leaders and their leadership had different qualities to the one I am praising in Warne.
With Gavaskar, you had a fighter trying to win respect and being unbendable in that regard, from teammate or opponent. With Imran, you had a man who took his country's best talents and solidified them as a team. With Border, you had him leading a side by building the character and spine of a team that would come to dominate later.
With Warne, I am talking about the fact that there were times when everyone around him would just perform better because they knew that either Warne would make something happen or encourage others in a way to play beyond themselves. That's why I use the RR example, because the players were just performing so well and their belief in themselves was tangible - it was Warne-esque confidence, the type you'd see from him in moments when he was playing either Tests or ODIs. I recall a Steve Waugh quote (can't remember the exact words) saying he couldn't believe what Warne did against the WIndies, S.Africa and Pakistan in 99WC tournament...that he felt he was playing with a true legend. It stuck with me considering how much longer Steve Waugh was playing and the fact that he was captain, to be in such awe of his own player.
With Gavaskar, you had a fighter trying to win respect and being unbendable in that regard, from teammate or opponent. With Imran, you had a man who took his country's best talents and solidified them as a team. With Border, you had him leading a side by building the character and spine of a team that would come to dominate later.
With Warne, I am talking about the fact that there were times when everyone around him would just perform better because they knew that either Warne would make something happen or encourage others in a way to play beyond themselves. That's why I use the RR example, because the players were just performing so well and their belief in themselves was tangible - it was Warne-esque confidence, the type you'd see from him in moments when he was playing either Tests or ODIs. I recall a Steve Waugh quote (can't remember the exact words) saying he couldn't believe what Warne did against the WIndies, S.Africa and Pakistan in 99WC tournament...that he felt he was playing with a true legend. It stuck with me considering how much longer Steve Waugh was playing and the fact that he was captain, to be in such awe of his own player.
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Athlai
Not Terrible
Reckon you are shifting a bit from genuine leadership Ikki and moving into the realms of inspirational figurehead. Warne IMO wasn't the greatest spin bowler ever, but he brought far more to the table than just his bowling ability. He brought his brains, his allround abilities and most importantly of all his aura.
Still wouldn't have him in my top 5... but hey!
Still wouldn't have him in my top 5... but hey!
Ikki
Hall of Fame Member
Yeah, I probably should have said inspirational figurehead. I wasn't praising him in the capacity of a captain but of a leader on the field.
bagapath
International Captain
hey... you are sounding as though you have found a definition of ideal captaincy and warne alone fits it... i dont agree.. but anyway what about kapil dev leading india to a WC win in 83? it also included a 175 n.o. a 5 for 43 and a catch that won the final. and it was a genuine international tournament won by a team of no hopers. did you consider kapil dev's captaincy when rating him?
one cannot praise warne enough for his bowling and catching alone. he would make it to the top 5 anyways. leave this IPL nonsense out.
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bagapath
International Captain
just noticed this. and i agree completely. being an an inspirational figurehead is what separates him from mcgrath and murali the other two equally great match winning bowlers of his time.
for the same reason lillee, marshall, imran, richards and tendulkar are also very highly rated compared to their equally illustrious peers. it is what separates the legends from the greatest.
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honestbharani
Whatever it takes!!!
lol.. time to dig out the old Shane Warne tribute thread I started up after he announced his retirement..Too low
It's well-known how highly I think of Warne. For me, he was simply the best at what he did. Here is a player where the phrase "the stats don't tell half the story" applies. A wily spinner who kept you glued as if you were viewing a 150kph fast-bowler. With Warne, every ball felt an opportunity and when it was ripe there was no one who came picking at it more often. In all my years of watching cricket there is no player I would rate higher as a "matchwinner". A player whose aura alone got him wickets when his body couldn't. He made the most hardest type of bowling look easy and could seemingly spin the ball on a dime and tweak the rotations at will.
I will always remember him for his performances in the 99 World cup and I will never forget the 2005 Ashes in which he displayed, for me, the pinnacle of Test bowling. With his life in tatters and him in tears in the locker room...to come out and play the way he did makes it an even more unbelievable feat.
Cricket is an old sport, however, I thank my lucky stars that I was born in the era where Shane Warne spun his stuff because if people told me about his feats without me witnessing them I wouldn't believe them. I keep my signature as a testament to Warne so that if people do not believe me, they may believe other cricketers who are also greats and who revere Warne like I do.
I had him at #2, and if I could have persuaded my brain to go with my heart I would have had him at #1.
subshakerz
International Coach
Can see why Warne is rated so highly by many, he brought so much allure to the game and was a legend. Definitely the best at his craft and his absence is certainly being felt in world cricket nowadays.
Having said that, I wouldn't have him in the top ten much less top five. There have been quite a few better bowlers in test cricket, you could argue Warne wasn't even the best bowler in his own team. And Warne's lack of success against India leaves a huge whole in his resume which seems to be often overlooked.
Having said that, I wouldn't have him in the top ten much less top five. There have been quite a few better bowlers in test cricket, you could argue Warne wasn't even the best bowler in his own team. And Warne's lack of success against India leaves a huge whole in his resume which seems to be often overlooked.
G.I.Joe
International Coach
I think the reason Warne managed to win the first IPL was precisely because he happened to be in charge of a bunch of no names whose game was suited to T20. The other teams had to deal with huge egos. Obviously it would be untruthful and taking credit away from the man to suggest it was the only reason, but nevertheless it was a major reason. This was very much apparent when Warne couldn't get his team into the semis in the 2nd IPL. The players had all developed superstar airs after the first season.
pasag
RTDAS
Nah, lacked Watto.