The ATG Teams General arguing/discussing thread

[Red]

The only real weird pick in that XI is Barry Richards. How exactly does one pick someone who has played a sum total of 4 tests ahead of a lot more deserving candidates is beyond my understanding.

A very good team otherwise.

Cos they played with and against him and know how good he was

 

[h_hurricane]

Cos they played with and against him and know how good he was

Not debating how good he was, but players should only be rated on how they did in tests imo. Barry Richards is a clear case of what could have been. Hutton or Gavaskar should walk into that XI.

If we pick players based on first class cricket, Mike Procter should be among the first ones picked here. And that would be unfair to Imran or Hadlee if he replaces them.

 

[Line and Length]

Not debating how good he was, but players should only be rated on how they did in tests imo. Barry Richards is a clear case of what could have been. Hutton or Gavaskar should walk into that XI.

If we pick players based on first class cricket, Mike Procter should be among the first ones picked here. And that would be unfair to Imran or Hadlee if he replaces them.

But that's the beauty of ex-players naming their ATG teams. They aren't judging purely on stats and performances in tests. Their selections are often based on personal experiences. Experiences that you and I sadly lack.

 

[aussie tragic]

But that's the beauty of ex-players naming their ATG teams. They aren't judging purely on stats and performances in tests. Their selections are often based on personal experiences. Experiences that you and I sadly lack.

Yeah but pretty sure he didn't play against, Hobbs, Bradman, Sobers, Sangakarra, Warne, McGrath or Barry Richards (in tests), so what's your point again?

 

[OverratedSanity]

Wtf is wrong with Michael Bevan's ears? Why the **** are they so pointy? He looks like he's about to go surf down helms deep's stairway again.

 

[h_hurricane]

Chinaman bowler, Chinaman ears

Edit: I only meant this in cricketing context. Apologies if there is any misunderstanding.

 

[smash84]

Chinaman bowler, Chinaman ears

Ummm......what?

 

[h_hurricane]

Ummm......what?

The word Chinaman in cricket implies an attribute which is rare. Like a left armer spinning the ball from off to leg. Like Bevan, like his pointy ears, like his ATG bowling average of 24.

 

[h_hurricane]

On a side note, has any cricketer averaged 50+ with the bat in ODIs, List A and first class and less than 25 with the ball in tests.

Bevan is the only one I can think of.

 

[bagapath]

Deryck Murray's XI ( from Richard Sydenham's book)

1) Sunil Gavaskar
Technically sound in defence with a full array of attacking strokes.
2) Conrad Hunte
Could curb his attacking instincts to suit the team’s needs.
3) Donald Bradman
His record speaks for itself.
4) George Headley
Known as the ‘Black Bradman’, although West Indians referred to Bradman as the ‘White Headley’.
5) Garfield Sobers
The greatest cricketer ever.
6) Frank Worrell
The greatest captain of all time and not a bad player either.
7) Wally Grout
The best wicketkeeper that I have ever seen.
8) Andy Roberts
Together with Dennis Lillee he transformed fast bowling to include the subtlety and guile previously only associated with spin bowling.
9) Shane Warne
Took bowling to another level.
10) Dennis Lillee (See Roberts.)
11) Lance Gibbs

 

[Red]

Not debating how good he was, but players should only be rated on how they did in tests imo. Barry Richards is a clear case of what could have been. Hutton or Gavaskar should walk into that XI.

If we pick players based on first class cricket, Mike Procter should be among the first ones picked here. And that would be unfair to Imran or Hadlee if he replaces them.

Who says Willis' criteria has to be test performance?

He would have played plenty against Richards in county I think. And he bowled against Gavaskar. If he thinks Richards was a better batsman, he's every right to put him in an XI.

This isn't dudes on the internet trying to say Procter over Hadlee or Richards over Gavaskar. This is guys who played elite cricket with and against them.

 

[AndrewB]

First time I've ever seen the selected #7 batting so low...weird

IND vs WI Cricket Scorecard, 3rd Test at Chennai, January 13 - 18, 1967

Get cricket scorecard of 3rd Test, IND vs WI, West Indies tour of India 1966/67 at Madras Cricket Club Ground, Chepauk, Madras dated January 13 - 18, 1967.

www.espncricinfo.com

WI vs NZ Cricket Scorecard, 4th Test at Georgetown, April 06 - 11, 1972

Get cricket scorecard of 4th Test, WI vs NZ, New Zealand tour of West Indies 1971/72 at Bourda, Georgetown, Guyana dated April 06 - 11, 1972.

www.espncricinfo.com

(Sobers batted at 7 a few more times in Tests, but in the ones linked above it's clearly his intended batting position, rather than the result of using a nightwatchman).

 

[TheJediBrah]

Wtf is wrong with Michael Bevan's ears? Why the **** are they so pointy? He looks like he's about to go surf down helms deep's stairway again.

It's clearly because of the hat he's wearing but ok.
If you're going to make fun of a Bevan physical attribute I'd go with the teeth personally.

Chinaman bowler, Chinaman ears

lmfao I feel like this might be offensive if I could make any sense of it

 

[Line and Length]

Yeah but pretty sure he didn't play against, Hobbs, Bradman, Sobers, Sangakarra, Warne, McGrath or Barry Richards (in tests), so what's your point again?

The point is that certain players (Hobbs, Bradman, Sobers) are so outstanding, they are automatic selections in any ATG team. When I refer to players' experiences, I'm not just referring to the experience of playing against others in Tests. As a player and then a commentator, Willis would have had plenty of first hand experiences observing those other players you name.

 

[TheJediBrah]

brb picking Bradman in ATG ODI team even though he didn't play ODIs

 

[Burgey]

Gavaskar should walk into that XI

lol wot u smoking?

 

[h_hurricane]

lmfao I feel like this might be offensive if I could make any sense of it

I already edited it mentioning I didn't mean that. In fact, I didn't even know it could be offensive until Smali pointed it out and I looked up the internet. Have heard plenty of commentators mention that word though whenever a bowler of similar style came up to bowl.

 

[h_hurricane]

lol wot u smoking?

Why not ? The best modern day opener. You get worked up every time his name comes up

 

[TheJediBrah]

still trying to figure out what Chinaman ears is over here

 

[Burgey]

Maybe because he averaged 17 the only time he faced a full strength attack here? Boycott was marginally better. Both horrible blokes, obviously.

Odd he wouldn't put Len Hutton in to open with Hobbs tbh. He's probably the glaring omission in Willis' XI. Sobers at seven is almost trolling. Imagine him walking out at 5/350 or so.