The ``ASHES`` and the Pietersen diillema

[Scaly piscine]

no mate they won 2-1 in south africa and 3-0 in australia not 2-1 twice and that match that south africa one was the last match in durban

They won 2-1 in SA twice, I wasn't referring to what happened in Australia, Timbuktu or anywhere else.

 

[Langeveldt]

It was hardly 'slightly better', England played below their best throughout and still won 2-1 IN South Africa and on the balance of play it should have been a bigger margin. Australia also only won 2-1 in SA (twice).

I guess thats another matter, but I'd say SA were under par as well, hence them losing..

 

[Mr Mxyzptlk]

England should have won 3-1 though...

 

[social]

I get the feeling that this might be 1 Ashes series too soon for England.

They are a very talented team, undoubtedly the no. 2 but there are too many "ifs"

1. Im not convinced about Strauss - there was a definite tapering off in form in SA and now teams have had a look at him for one season it will be much more difficult for him.

2. England does not have an established no. 3

3. Vaughan is still not in anything like the form he was in Aus.

4. Will Flintoff be fit?

5. Can Flintoff produce the batting form vs Aus that he shows vs lesser teams.

6. Geraint Jones is not a test class keeper

7. Giles is not a match-winning spinner and plays right into the Aus left-handers strengths

8. Anderson/Jones need to improve massively to be a threat

9. Harmison is out of form

As I said, they have the talent, but there are too many uncertainties to back them with any conviction.

 

[Langeveldt]

^ Top post, fully agreed

 

[Neil Pickup]

Agree on most points, but is (7) in that the same way Vettori plays into the Aussie left handers' strengths?

 

[aussie]

aussie

yep i'm with u langevelt england have a better chance when they go down under in 2006 when they should a have the same team while we might see some new faces in the australian eleven

 

[Tom Halsey]

Well, if Fletcher is reportedly set to pick KP for the Ashes, it IMO can do nothing but improve our chances - from next to nothing to just very unlikely.

Most of the team failed to turn up in SA, and we can't rely on just a few players like we did in SA. That said, we have a much better chance than we ever did in 2002/3.

 

[Tom Halsey]

I think we'll know by lunch on the first day, the opening exchanges will set the tone for the entire series.

IIRC England put on over 100 for no wicket in the first session in 2001 - look what happened there.

 

[aussie]

aussie

thats right tom, i told neil that earlier

 

[superkingdave]

IIRC England put on over 100 for no wicket in the first session in 2001 - look what happened there.

Tresco got a duck, but Butcher and Athers put on 104 for the second wicket

 

[Neil Pickup]

I'm still backing Australia as they have done it all before. If England fire with 9 or 10 players at a time then we have a chance, but I expect the Australians' experience to carry the day.

Just to quantify my earlier statement a bit more, I can't see us coming back from a bad first session. Australia (for experience reasons) may well be able to recover, but if we collapse or get carted on day one, then there will be little coming back.

And I said this, too.

 

[aussie]

aussie

And I said this, too.

u did didn't u sorry their mate, i forgot

 

[social]

Agree on most points, but is (7) in that the same way Vettori plays into the Aussie left handers' strengths?

I regard Vettori as a better attacking bowler than Giles and he is also the Kiwis' main threat.

As a result, the Aussies have tended lately to sit on him and attack the others.

Giles' role at present seems to be one of containment and I think the Aussies will try to attack him in order to place more pressure on the others.

 

[Mr Mxyzptlk]

I regard Vettori as a better attacking bowler than Giles and he is also the Kiwis' main threat.

As a result, the Aussies have tended lately to sit on him and attack the others.

Giles' role at present seems to be one of containment and I think the Aussies will try to attack him in order to place more pressure on the others.

If the pitches are as they were last year, Giles shouldn't be trying to contain!

 

[aussie]

aussie

thats all gilo can do he wont spin through australia until those caribbean fellows

 

[aussie]

aussie

I mean unlike those caribbean fellows.
Its not that those pitches were rank turners gilo just showed the west indies up n proved that the wi batsmen when put under pressure will give u your wicket, the only batsman on the west indies team thant really stood up was chanderpaul.

But lets stay on the topic

 

[marc71178]

Most of the team failed to turn up in SA

And IMO that is a very big point to make.

Despite playing nowhere near their best, they went there and won the series reasonably comfortably.

Now if the players could all fire together in July and August, who knows?

 

[marc71178]

Giles' role at present seems to be one of containment and I think the Aussies will try to attack him in order to place more pressure on the others.

It all depends on the wickets.

If there's not much in it, then he will be containing, a job he doesn't do too badly.

If theres something in it then who knows? Vettori did well in Australia (as indeed Giles did in his only game last Ashes series)

 

[Blaze]

It all depends on the wickets.

If there's not much in it, then he will be containing, a job he doesn't do too badly.

If theres something in it then who knows? Vettori did well in Australia (as indeed Giles did in his only game last Ashes series)

Vettori











Giles