The 90s and 00s banlisted draft thread

[bunny]

Even though Sangers only averaged mid thirties with the bat when keeping cf. Healy's high 20s? Anyway, Sangakkara is not the worst example of this - he at least kept and kept pretty well in many tests.

That's another matter. How much keeping affects one's batting. I would like to closely examine those matches where Sangakkara kept. Will respond back.
Healy vs Prior/Akmal: easily Healy.
Healy vs Gilchrist: easily Gilchrist
Healy vs Flower: easily Flower
Healy vs Boucher: not sure
Healy vs Sangakkara: Sanga but I will have to check the above.

 

[stephen]

Round 11:

1 NUFAN
2 Somerset
3 GingerFurball
4 Blakus
5 stephen
6 BoyBrumby
7 metallics2006
8 Matt79
9 Marc71178
10 bunny


Round 10:

1 bunny             Curtly Ambrose
2 Marc71178         Shane Warne
3 Matt79            Wasim Akram
4 metallics2006     Allan Donald
5 BoyBrumby         Sachin Tendulkar
6 stephen           Brian Lara
7 Blakus            Steve Waugh
8 GingerFurball
9 Somerset
10 NUFAN


Round 9:

1 Blakus            Darren Lehmann
2 Somerset          John Wright
3 Matt79            Sourav Ganguly
4 BoyBrumby         Navjot Sidhu
5 stephen           Herschelle Gibbs
6 NUFAN             Michael Atherton
7 Marc71178         Chris Gayle
8 metallics2006     Andrew Symonds
9 GingerFurball     Tillakaratne Dilshan
10 bunny            Brendon McCullum


Round 8:

1 Marc71178         Angus Fraser
2 metallics2006     Javagal Srinath
3 GingerFurball     Mohammad Azharuddin
4 Matt79            Damien Fleming
5 bunny             Saleem Malik
6 Somerset          Kapil Dev
7 stephen           Hashan Tillakaratne
8 NUFAN             Brad Haddin
9 BoyBrumby         Simon Jones
10 Blakus           Prasanna Jayawardene


Round 7:

1  Blakus           Sanath Jayasuria
2  BoyBrumby        Paul Reiffel
3  NUFAN            Stephen Fleming
4  stephen          Marcus Trescothick
5  Somerset         Thilan Samaraweera
6  bunny            Robin Smith
7  Matt79           Michael Vaughan
8  GingerFurball    Brett Lee
9  metallics2006    Phil Jaques
10 Marc71178        Ashwell Prince

Round 6:

1. Blakus           Mark Taylor (no)
2. stephen          Michael Slater (yes)
3. bunny            Allan Border (no)
4. BoyBrumby        Brian MacMillan (no)
5. GingerFurball    Mark Waugh (yes)
6. Marc71178        Graeme Thorpe (no)
7. NUFAN            Mitchell Johnson (no)
8. Matt79           Andrew Strauss (no)
9. Somerset         Bruce Reid (n/a)
10. metallics2006   Daryll Cullinan

Round 5:

1. metallics2006    Damien Martyn
2. Somerset         Martin Crowe
3. Matt79           Younis Khan
4. NUFAN            Saqlain Mushtaq
5. Marc71178        Jack Russell
6. GingerFurball    Gary Kirsten
7. BoyBrumby        Desmond Haynes
8. bunny            Saeed Anwar
9. stephen          Harbhajan Singh
10. Blakus          Darren Gough

Round 4:

1. Matt79           Stuart MacGill
2. Marc71178        Michael Clarke
3. Blakus           Mohammed Yousuf
4. GingerFurball    VVS Laxman
5. BoyBrumby        Mike Hussey
6. NUFAN            Chaminda Vaas
7. Somerset         David Gower
8. metallics2006    Makhaya Ntini
9. stephen          Mark Boucher
10. bunny           Simon Katich

Round 3:

1. bunny            Merv Hughes
2. stephen          Shivnarine Chanderpaul
3. metallics2006    Fanie de Villiers
4. Somerset         Imran Khan
5. NUFAN            Kevin Pietersen
6. BoyBrumby        Alec Stewart
7. GingerFurball    Justin Langer
8. Blakus           Inzamam ul Haq
9. Marc71178        Gautam Gambhir
10. Matt79          Heath Streak

Round 2:

1. NUFAN            Shane Bond
2. Blakus           Malcolm Marshall
3. GingerFurball    Mohammad Asif
4. BoyBrumby        Mahela Jayawardene
5. Marc71178        Stuart Clark
6. bunny            Anil Kumble
7. Somerset         AB de Villiers
8. Stephen          Craig McDermott
9. metallics2006    Daniel Vettori
10. Matt79          Andrew Flintoff

Round 1:

1. Matt79           Andy Flower
2. metallics2006    MS Dhoni
3. Stephen          Courtney Walsh
4. Somerset         Waqar Younis
5. bunny            Ian Bishop
6. Marc71178        Jason Gillespie
7. BoyBrumby        Shoaib Akhtar
8. GingerFurball    Chris Cairns
9. Blakus           Richard Hadlee
10. NUFAN           Virender Sehwag

 

[stephen]

That's another matter. How much keeping affects one's batting. I would like to closely examine those matches where Sangakkara kept. Will respond back.
Healy vs Prior/Akmal: easily Healy.
Healy vs Gilchrist: easily Gilchrist
Healy vs Flower: easily Flower
Healy vs Boucher: not sure
Healy vs Sangakkara: Sanga but I will have to check the above.

The other thing to consider is that Healy was a keeper in a time when the standard of bowling was much higher and made very valuable runs at times. Until Gilchrist came along most people thought that Healy's batting was about as good as you could get from a keeper.

Particularly this game is unforgetable:

1st Test: Australia v West Indies at Brisbane, Nov 22-26, 1996 | Cricket Scorecard | Cricinfo.com

Probably the best attack of the last 20 years (with the possible exception of McGrath, Gillespie, Kasperwitcz and Warne) at the Gabba and he made over 200 runs without being dismissed and basically won the game for Aus.

 

[stephen]

Does anyone know anywhere that you can find out the number of byes conceded by a keeper? Bunny's thoughts have gotten me interested.

 

[Matt79]

I think bunny has a point in that having a brilliant keeper as compared to a competent one doesn't benefit you as much as having a brilliant batsman/bowler instead of a competant one. That said I'd say that the flipside is that having a substandard keeper instead of a competent one hurts you MORE than having a substandard bowler or batsman - because a keeper is involved in nearly every ball, and it's not really possible for others to cover his weaknesses.

I do think the deleterious effect keeping has on most batsmen's performances tends to be underestimated often as well.

 

[vic_orthdox]

Sangakkara averages 40 as a keeper, and 73 as a non-keeper.

 

[Matt79]

EDIT AGAIN: Yeah, you're right.

Just went and checked the "Keeper for the team of the 00s" thread, and Bagapath had put those 'minnows excluded' stats (39 as a keeper and 67 as non-keeper). Guess I mis-read/mis-remembered them. Apologies bunny - thanks Jack.

 

[bunny]

EDIT AGAIN: Yeah, you're right.

Just went and checked the "Keeper for the team of the 00s" thread, and Bagapath had put those 'minnows excluded' stats (39 as a keeper and 67 as non-keeper). Guess I mis-read/mis-remembered them. Apologies bunny - thanks Jack.

I just analyzed 5 matches of Sangakkar's career: 1 dropped catch and 68 byes.
Healy's 5 matches: 20 byes (no idea of dropped catches because of lack of cricinfo commentary).

As I've anyway said rarely is a match decided on byes. Most of the games are decided by 100s, 5-fors or lack of it. In any case the difference is 48 byes, and the 1 dropped catch of Cook who went on to score 4 additional runs. Even if you use Cook's average = 40 as the potential he would have scored, that's a total of 88 runs (of which 48 are in my view are largely inconsequential). 88/10 = 8.8 runs per inning (although I'd view it as 40/10 = 4/inning, and more to the point 4/10 = 0.4 / inning).
This is just a sample, but I hope it's not definitely clear that Healy as a keeper+batsman was easily better than Sangakkara.

 

[bunny]

I just analyzed 5 matches of Sangakkar's career: 1 dropped catch and 68 byes.
Healy's 5 matches: 20 byes (no idea of dropped catches because of lack of cricinfo commentary).

As I've anyway said rarely is a match decided on byes. Most of the games are decided by 100s, 5-fors or lack of it. In any case the difference is 48 byes, and the 1 dropped catch of Cook who went on to score 4 additional runs. Even if you use Cook's average = 40 as the potential he would have scored, that's a total of 88 runs (of which 48 are in my view are largely inconsequential). 88/10 = 8.8 runs per inning (although I'd view it as 40/10 = 4/inning, and more to the point 4/10 = 0.4 / inning).
This is just a sample, but I hope it's not definitely clear that Healy as a keeper+batsman was easily better than Sangakkara.

If we ignore byes for now, looking at it in another way, Healy averages 27 with bat. Let's assume that Sangakkara would average 45 with bat when he starts keeping from now onwards (because his batting has developed more recently). That's a 18 run diff per inning = 35 per match. A batsman on average averages 35 per inning. (Taking all the players into account it'd be roughly this much. You can do the math). So Sangakkara has to drop 1 more catch per match than Healy to make up for the difference. Healy catches 3 per match, so in essence Sanga has to drop 1 in every 3 catches, and Healy has to catch 3 out of every 3 catches. That would mean Sanga has to be a really lousy keeper.

 

[Furball]

Who's left for me to pick? Having PC trouble and the code doesn't show up on my phone.

 

[Matt79]

Ambrose, Akram, Warne, Donald, Tendulkar, Lara, and Waugh have all gone. Gooch, Boon, De Silva and Healy remain.

 

[Furball]

I'll take Healy thanks.

 

[Somerset]

Graham Gooch is my selection.

Somerset XI (with statistics post 1990)

John Wright (18 tests, 1662 runs @ 55.40)
Graham Gooch (45 tests, 4176 runs @ 51.55)
Martin Crowe (c) (32 tests, 2317 runs @ 45.43, 1 wicket @ 69.00)
David Gower (11 tests, 848 runs @ 53.00)
AB de Villiers (wk) (52 tests, 3558 runs @ 43.92, 2 wickets @ 49.50, 75 catches and 1 stumping)
Thilan Samaraweera (57 tests, 3938 runs @ 51.14, 14 wickets @ 48.50)
Imran Khan (9 tests, 545 runs @ 60.55, 8 wickets @ 29.62)
Kapil Dev (28 tests, 1002 runs @ 31.31, 75 wickets @ 32.24)
Waqar Younis (85 tests, 1006 runs @ 10.37, 367 wickets @ 23.29)
-
Bruce Reid (9 tests, 18 runs @ 2.25, 51 wickets @ 18.58)

 

[stephen]

Leaving Boon or De Silva for NUFAN.

 

[stephen]

The picks are correct now.

Round 11:

1 NUFAN
2 Somerset
3 GingerFurball
4 Blakus
5 stephen
6 BoyBrumby
7 metallics2006
8 Matt79
9 Marc71178
10 bunny


Round 10:

1 bunny             Curtly Ambrose
2 Marc71178         Shane Warne
3 Matt79            Wasim Akram
4 metallics2006     Allan Donald
5 BoyBrumby         Sachin Tendulkar
6 stephen           Brian Lara
7 Blakus            Steve Waugh
8 GingerFurball     Ian Healy
9 Somerset          Graham Gooch
10 NUFAN


Round 9:

1 Blakus            Darren Lehmann
2 Somerset          John Wright
3 Matt79            Sourav Ganguly
4 BoyBrumby         Navjot Sidhu
5 stephen           Herschelle Gibbs
6 NUFAN             Michael Atherton
7 Marc71178         Chris Gayle
8 metallics2006     Andrew Symonds
9 GingerFurball     Tillakaratne Dilshan
10 bunny            Brendon McCullum


Round 8:

1 Marc71178         Angus Fraser
2 metallics2006     Javagal Srinath
3 GingerFurball     Mohammad Azharuddin
4 Matt79            Damien Fleming
5 bunny             Saleem Malik
6 Somerset          Kapil Dev
7 stephen           Hashan Tillakaratne
8 NUFAN             Brad Haddin
9 BoyBrumby         Simon Jones
10 Blakus           Prasanna Jayawardene


Round 7:

1  Blakus           Sanath Jayasuriya
2  BoyBrumby        Paul Reiffel
3  NUFAN            Stephen Fleming
4  stephen          Marcus Trescothick
5  Somerset         Thilan Samaraweera
6  bunny            Robin Smith
7  Matt79           Michael Vaughan
8  GingerFurball    Brett Lee
9  metallics2006    Phil Jaques
10 Marc71178        Ashwell Prince

Round 6:

1. Blakus           Mark Taylor (no)
2. stephen          Michael Slater (yes)
3. bunny            Allan Border (no)
4. BoyBrumby        Brian McMillan (no)
5. GingerFurball    Mark Waugh (yes)
6. Marc71178        Graeme Thorpe (no)
7. NUFAN            Mitchell Johnson (no)
8. Matt79           Andrew Strauss (no)
9. Somerset         Bruce Reid (n/a)
10. metallics2006   Daryll Cullinan

Round 5:

1. metallics2006    Damien Martyn
2. Somerset         Martin Crowe
3. Matt79           Younis Khan
4. NUFAN            Saqlain Mushtaq
5. Marc71178        Jack Russell
6. GingerFurball    Gary Kirsten
7. BoyBrumby        Desmond Haynes
8. bunny            Saeed Anwar
9. stephen          Harbhajan Singh
10. Blakus          Darren Gough

Round 4:

1. Matt79           Stuart MacGill
2. Marc71178        Michael Clarke
3. Blakus           Mohammed Yousuf
4. GingerFurball    VVS Laxman
5. BoyBrumby        Mike Hussey
6. NUFAN            Chaminda Vaas
7. Somerset         David Gower
8. metallics2006    Makhaya Ntini
9. stephen          Mark Boucher
10. bunny           Simon Katich

Round 3:

1. bunny            Merv Hughes
2. stephen          Shivnarine Chanderpaul
3. metallics2006    Fanie de Villiers
4. Somerset         Imran Khan
5. NUFAN            Kevin Pietersen
6. BoyBrumby        Alec Stewart
7. GingerFurball    Justin Langer
8. Blakus           Inzamam ul Haq
9. Marc71178        Gautam Gambhir
10. Matt79          Heath Streak

Round 2:

1. NUFAN            Shane Bond
2. Blakus           Malcolm Marshall
3. GingerFurball    Mohammad Asif
4. BoyBrumby        Mahela Jayawardene
5. Marc71178        Stuart Clark
6. bunny            Anil Kumble
7. Somerset         AB de Villiers
8. Stephen          Craig McDermott
9. metallics2006    Daniel Vettori
10. Matt79          Andrew Flintoff

Round 1:

1. Matt79           Andy Flower
2. metallics2006    MS Dhoni
3. Stephen          Courtney Walsh
4. Somerset         Waqar Younis
5. bunny            Ian Bishop
6. Marc71178        Jason Gillespie
7. BoyBrumby        Shoaib Akhtar
8. GingerFurball    Chris Cairns
9. Blakus           Richard Hadlee
10. NUFAN           Virender Sehwag

 

[Blakus]

Leaving Boon or De Silva for NUFAN.

Having seen his avatar I'm pretty sure I know who he's going to pick

 

[stephen]

Having seen his avatar I'm pretty sure I know who he's going to pick

You'd certainly hope so :P

 

[NUFAN]

I'm going to be a few minutes here working out my final 2 picks. Round 11 I'm definitely going to select a South African, but I want to make sure I get the balance right.

Round 10's pick is tough because they are pretty even and I actually need a batsman more suitable to coming in at 5 or 6 possibly.

 

[NUFAN]

**** me, I wish Healy was left over, so I could just pick the remaining batsman with no thought.

I've been trying to work out what's better having Kallis as a fifth bowling option or playing Haddin at 6, with Pollock Johnson Vaas 7,8,9. The second option would mean the bowling attack is pretty awesome, but the batting weaker.

Basically the way I worked it out was if I selected Boon I would go with Pollock and if I selected de Silva I would go with Kallis, because I could picture de Silva coming in at 6, but couldn't see Boon or Fleming or even Kallis.

I feel a bit dirty with my avatar and all, but I'm confident my attack is strong enough to take 20 wickets.

I've selected Aravinda de Silva and Jacques Kallis.

1 Michael Atherton
2 Virender Sehwag
3 Stephen Fleming
4 Kevin Pietersen
5 Jacques Kallis
6 Aravinda de Silva
7 Brad Haddin
8 Mitchell Johnson
9 Chaminda Vaas
10 Saqlain Mushtaq
11 Shane Bond

 

[Matt79]

Wow, didn't expect him to be the first guy taken in round 11.