Terry Jenner on developing spinners

[fredfertang]

Yorkshire did have a leggie, Eddie Leadbeater, who was good enough to get a couple of Tests for England in India in 51/52 but the Yorkies lost patience with him in his third season in 52 and that was that

 

[Chimpdaddy]

i never said such a thing, i feel australia should pick their best bowlers and best batsmen, and simply get off their arses and bowl 15 overs an hour, if the best bowlers are 4 pacemen and the best batsmen are 6 specialists then so be it, there is part time spin available to break it up.

Yes, my frustration is more towards the stupidity of the selectors.

-Chimpdaddy-

 

[Rant0r]

The inability to bowl 15 overs per hour has come with one, sometimes two, spinners in the side. It's not to do with lack of spinners but neglect of the basic quantity of urgency.

Not really. MacGill was someone who'd have the odd really good game then 4 or 5 bad ones.

name one side in the last 10 years he wouldn't walk into, i can only think of india, and maybe pakistan depending on the mushtaq/saqlain/kaneria love

MacGill was incredible at cleaning up tails. Australia would have killed for him on the third day at Melbourne.

and shane warne wasn't ?

Haddin would probably have found a way to knock the bails off before the ball hit the stumps, or MacGill would've managed to overstep. It seemed Steyn was going to get let-offs regardless on that day.

haha, another haddin hater, respect

Yes, my frustration is more towards the stupidity of the selectors.

-Chimpdaddy-

with boonie and merv in there at the moment it's like a beer tent

 

[pup11]

haha, another haddin hater, respect

Tbh Richard has always been one of the most vocal supporters of Haddin and his ability, even when he was going through that rough phase at the beginning of his career, i think all Rich was trying to say is that Steyn was almost unbreakable that day and and no matter what, a let-off would have come his way one way or the another.

 

[Rant0r]

nah i think he was bagging him out, he's alright, no healy but

 

[Richard]

name one side in the last 10 years he wouldn't walk into, i can only think of india, and maybe pakistan depending on the mushtaq/saqlain/kaneria love

There are plenty of teams whose full-strength seam attacks would make him worthless. You don't need an average wristspinner if you've got good seamers.

haha, another haddin hater, respect

No, not at all. As Sameer has said, I've liked the look of Haddin for a good few years now, was simply quipping that Australia seemed absolutely determined to give Steyn let-offs via whatever means, and that it cost them big-time.

 

[Migara]

they seem intent on a spinner though, i think because they have been shown to be completely incapable of bowling 15 overs an hour, i personally would go with a pace battery and some part time spin.

macgill's was better than you give him credit for, not a warne, but would walk into almost any other international team during his peak.

MacGill was a tiger against poor players of spin. But rendered toothless against quality players of spin. He evrages 40+ against both IND and SL, despite bowling on dust bowls. MacGill even in his pomp woudn't have walked in to any Asian side except Bangladesh. If he bowled in FCC in India and SL, he would have got tonked so badly, even his name would have not come sor selection.
In comparison Murali, Warne and Kumble kep challenging even the best players of spin. They did not fold up when batsmen stared coming at them

 

[Uppercut]

and shane warne wasn't ?

Warne was a beast at it, no doubt, but tail-wiping is one area where I'll give MacGill the edge.

 

[vic_orthdox]

MacGill was a tiger against poor players of spin. But rendered toothless against quality players of spin. He evrages 40+ against both IND and SL, despite bowling on dust bowls. MacGill even in his pomp woudn't have walked in to any Asian side except Bangladesh. If he bowled in FCC in India and SL, he would have got tonked so badly, even his name would have not come sor selection.
In comparison Murali, Warne and Kumble kep challenging even the best players of spin. They did not fold up when batsmen stared coming at them

He never played either of SL or IND away, did he? All in Australia. Mind you, from memory one of the Tests up in Cairns or Darwin was on a fair turner.

Not that I'm arguing he would have made an Indian or Sri Lankan side. I think that he could've played for Pakistan at some stage during his career though.

 

[Richard]

Played 2 Tests in Sri Lanka in 2003/04, never played them at home. His top-end "Tests" weren't worth the title - they were against Bangladesh.

 

[Migara]

Played 2 Tests in Sri Lanka in 2003/04, never played them at home. His top-end "Tests" weren't worth the title - they were against Bangladesh.

He played 2 against SL in SL and one in Aus as well. In all of them, he got tonked.

 

[Richard]

Forgot MacGill played those 2 in Aus in 2007/08 TBH. But although I don't think he'd have had any success in those had he not declined, he'd clearly been reduced by injury from average to very poor by that time (2007/08) nonetheless.

 

[Migara]

Not that I'm arguing he would have made an Indian or Sri Lankan side. I think that he could've played for Pakistan at some stage during his career though.

Doubtful that is. He wouldn't have walked in to Pakistan side if not Saqlain did his knee. But he's better than Kaneria.

 

[superkingdave]

Yorkshire did have a leggie, Eddie Leadbeater, who was good enough to get a couple of Tests for England in India in 51/52 but the Yorkies lost patience with him in his third season in 52 and that was that

Having just finished Trueman's autobiography, seems county selection (or at least in Yorkshire) was incredibly abysmal in those days, can only imagine what Richard would think of those selectors if what Trueman says is true..though in fairness the book i pretty much a combination of droning on about how it wasn't like it is now in my day and moaning about how was treated by Yorkshire, MCC, the press, the establishment etc

 

[Richard]

I know plenty about Yorkshire selection just through Dickie Bird's book(s). And Dickie was someone who worshipped playing for Yorkshire so much he was never overly critical - even after all those years - of the selection policies. What someone much more non-word-mincing like Trueman would say about it doesn't take too much imagination.

 

[superkingdave]

I guess Tommy Greenhough might be the last Englishman to have sustained success as a wrist spinner in FC cricket...think he retired in 66

 

[Richard]

Ian Salisbury has had many good seasons. He's also had some bad ones, but I'd reckon the good would outnumber the bad, at least before he reached the age of 33 or so.

 

[vic_orthdox]

Ian Salisbury has had many good seasons. He's also had some bad ones, but I'd reckon the good would outnumber the bad, at least before he reached the age of 33 or so.

Was interesting talking to a bloke who played Sydney grade cricket with him. Said he was a genius, but the guy admitted himself that he got overawed a bit in Test cricket. And that even in grade cricket, as soon as a guy started getting hold of him, he lost confidence very easily.

 

[Richard]

Yeah those were precisely the criticisms always levelled at Salisbury. That and that his Googly is too easy to pick (arm goes much higher for it), meaning his line (mostly outside off-stump) wasn't that effective against those who could pick his Googly easily.

I guess Salisbury was unfortunte to come-up in his "second" incarnation (his "first" was poor, averaging 64.11) against some of the best players of spin around (Cronje, Aravinda de Silva, Jayasuriya and Inzamam-ul-Haq) and that made him look utterly diabolical when he wasn't anything of the sort. Unbelievably, in his second coming he took 2 for 385, and that could very easily have been 0 for 385 - both wickets came right at the end of the innings.

 

[Goughy]

Yeah those were precisely the criticisms always levelled at Salisbury. That and that his Googly is too easy to pick (arm goes much higher for it), meaning his line (mostly outside off-stump) wasn't that effective against those who could pick his Googly easily.

Are you sure it wasnt the left shoulder dropping which gave the illusion of a higher arm?