Swalec Stadium

[Noble One]

This guy presumably: Cricinfo - Players and Officials - Clint McKay

2 years time would make him 28, although there are late straters, given the fact Australia aren't blessed in the seam bowling department, I think he'd be in consideration now if he was at that level unless they're seeing if Clark and Lee are both finished before slotting him in?

What's the buzz in Australia, is he being earmarked for the 2010/11 Ashes?

I think 1 of the 2 (Boll and Hilf) you mentioned will be part of the Aussie attack (probably Hilfenhaus since he seems to be more in favour) for 10/11.

Actually the Australian seam bowling department is very healthy at this very moment. Few upcoming young seamers, but numerous cricketers in the 26-30 age rage that could slip quite easily into the test squad.

Considering in the Ashes squad already we have a battle between Siddle, Johnson, Lee, Clark, Hilfenhaus and McDonald for 3 maybe 4 spots.

Doug Bollinger is next in line, deservedly so after consistent domestic seasons and a decent showing on test debut. Shaun Tait is still always a possibility of a comeback however unlikely.

Then a wealth of decent bowlers who are of a good age for Test selection, have decent first class records, and most still have improvements to come in there game. Magoffin, Geeves, McKay, Harris, Cleary, Hopes, Swan and Cameron.

Also add some of the forgotten older cricketers who are still considered after decent domestic performances, Bracken and Noffke.

Then some young cricketers who performed well in the past season. George, Hastings and ****ley.

For a six team domestic competition, there is numerous good bowlers floating about. Yes a lack of younger cricketers, but a good bowler at 22 is just as valuable as a good bowler at 29.

 

[Son Of Coco]

L;ook at his record at various grounds, has basically only been poor (very poor to be frank) on the flatter or slower surfaces. Conversely he's been very effective on grounds with a bit of bounce, basically he's very reliant on conditions.

He bowled well in Adelaide...not exactly a seamer's paradise.

 

[oitoitoi]

He bowled well in Adelaide...not exactly a seamer's paradise.

He was also very poor in Adelaide against India.

 

[Richard]

Actually the Australian seam bowling department is very healthy at this very moment. Few upcoming young seamers, but numerous cricketers in the 26-30 age rage that could slip quite easily into the test squad.

Considering in the Ashes squad already we have a battle between Siddle, Johnson, Lee, Clark, Hilfenhaus and McDonald for 3 maybe 4 spots.

Doug Bollinger is next in line, deservedly so after consistent domestic seasons and a decent showing on test debut. Shaun Tait is still always a possibility of a comeback however unlikely.

Then a wealth of decent bowlers who are of a good age for Test selection, have decent first class records, and most still have improvements to come in there game. Magoffin, Geeves, McKay, Harris, Cleary, Hopes, Swan and Cameron.

I think that's an extremely optimistic way of looking at things. I'd say without any real doubt that Magoffin, Geeves, Harris, Hopes and Swan have next to no hope of being Test-class bowlers, probably ever and certainly at the current time, and that Cleary and Cameron are less likely than more to be.

Australia currently have Clark who is almost certainly still Test-class, Johnson who is top-notch, Siddle who is very promising, Hilfenhaus who is promising, Lee who might still have a bit left in the tank but might be finished, Tait who there's no knowing what'll happen with him, Bollinger who might have something to offer but equally might not, McKay who seems vaguely promising, and nothing else which gives-off the suggestion of being Test-match material.

 

[Uppercut]

The strange thing about The Oval is that however flat it tends to be - and it's usually flatter than anywhere in the country except Taunton (which, thank God, doesn't host Tests) - there's still been just one uninterrupted draw there since 1995, and that was in 2007 when India would almost certainly have won if they'd tried to.

The Oval is flat, but it also tends to be fast and bouncy so the game moves along at a decent pace.

 

[Richard]

Leaving aside whether that statement is 100% true (and it certainly isn't always even if there are indeed times when it is) all that should mean is that 600 plays 600 rather than 400 plays 400... but yet you still, often, see teams being bowled-out for poor scores.

Of course, The Oval has produced the odd bowler-friendly pitch (see 1997, 1999, 2006 and 2008) but it also seems to have a tendency for teams to have one bad innings, which usually costs the game.

Good job rain deprived England of the chance to do that in 2002, and a shame it deprived Australia of the chance in 2005.

 

[Scaly piscine]

The Lord's wicket has been pretty batting friendly in county cricket tbh. I agree the test vs W.Indies was a different wicket form the normal Lord's wicket, but I think the wicket will be batting-friendly for the Ashes test unless we win the 1st test.

Swing for the most part is atmospheric and quality of grip and our bowlers bowled well.

I think there will be results at Cardiff, Edgbaston and Headingley for sure and maybe at Lord's with a nailed-on draw at The Oval.

I think Cardiff is the most likely to be a draw. The weather there is worse than anywhere else. They'll be desperate to produce a game that lasts the distance - with all eyes on them and the ECB if the match is over in 3 days.

 

[Goughy]

I can't see Clark having such a steep, instant decline, purely because virtually no-one ever does. Cases like Gillespie's are extraordinary rule-exceptions.

An amazing post given you said the complete opposite in another thread. Ie it is quite common for fast bowlers to lose 'it' over night eg Donald

 

[Richard]

I don't know that I said it's "quite common", merely that it can and does happen more than once-in-a-blue-moon, and that those claiming Donald was still a brilliant bowler in 2001/02 are wildly mistaken.

However, the two posts do seem odd given I made them both, so maybe I'd have done better to say the likes of Clark and Gillespie\Donald are very different style bowlers - the latter two (and Brett Lee for that matter) are bowlers whose actions were\are all about power and explosion. Clark has a much more measured, compact, minimalist action and it's the likes of him who virtually never experience such sudden decline. For the likes of Gillespie, Donald and so on it's quite plausible, but still not I wouldn't say overwhelmingly likely. Fewer do than don't.

 

[Uppercut]

What worries me about Clark, as with Ryan Sidebottom, is that he can't really afford to lose any pace with age or he'll be too slow. He has always been just quick enough to be threatening.

 

[Son Of Coco]

He was also very poor in Adelaide against India.

Well, that seals it then.

 

[Goughy]

Fewer do than don't.

Fewer do than dont is a change from "extraordinary rule-exceptions"

Aside from Donald, there was Hoggard recently that was cast aside over night and plenty of others.

Ill grant you that it doesnt happen to most quicks but it isnt rare.

 

[rivera213]

I think Cardiff is the most likely to be a draw. The weather there is worse than anywhere else. They'll be desperate to produce a game that lasts the distance - with all eyes on them and the ECB if the match is over in 3 days.

It's the most bowler friendly of any of the 5 wickets in the Ashes.

Of course, the weather is always a big part but if it holds up, the Cardiff game will be a result.

Actually the Australian seam bowling department is very healthy at this very moment. Few upcoming young seamers, but numerous cricketers in the 26-30 age rage that could slip quite easily into the test squad.

Considering in the Ashes squad already we have a battle between Siddle, Johnson, Lee, Clark, Hilfenhaus and McDonald for 3 maybe 4 spots.

Doug Bollinger is next in line, deservedly so after consistent domestic seasons and a decent showing on test debut. Shaun Tait is still always a possibility of a comeback however unlikely.

Then a wealth of decent bowlers who are of a good age for Test selection, have decent first class records, and most still have improvements to come in there game. Magoffin, Geeves, McKay, Harris, Cleary, Hopes, Swan and Cameron.

Also add some of the forgotten older cricketers who are still considered after decent domestic performances, Bracken and Noffke.

Then some young cricketers who performed well in the past season. George, Hastings and ****ley.

For a six team domestic competition, there is numerous good bowlers floating about. Yes a lack of younger cricketers, but a good bowler at 22 is just as valuable as a good bowler at 29.

Johnson- best bowler in the world IMO.
Siddle- very over-rated and got wickets due to poor batting rather than great bowling.
Lee- past his best, still could do the biz in ODI and T20.
Clark- past his best and has had injuries plus is 34.
Hilfenhaus- close call to whether he is actually test class or not.
McDonald- Probably the worst allrounder in international cricket, don't know why he's in the Aussie squad.

I haven't seen enough of Bollinger to know how good he is.

Tait I doubt will plays tests since he hasn't been picked for this Ashes when the seam bowling is as bad as it ever since I've been watching cricket. He seems to be regarded as a specialist limited overs player in CA's view.

For the 2010/11 Ashes, the situation should be better. But at the moment, Australi'as seam department is poor by any standards.

Don't get me wrong, our bowling isn't great either, but Australia's is especially bad. It makes me laugh when people think we'll get thrashed in the Ashes. Batting doesn't win matches, it sets them up and saves them but bowling wins matches and at home, we have the better bowling by far.

 

[rivera213]

Aside from Donald, there was Hoggard recently that was cast aside over night and plenty of others.

In fairness to Hoggard, he should still be in the England team.

He has 1 poor game in NZ which is completely understandible considering the circumstances and he's thrown out like a piece of **** when Steve "I can't be arsed to actually bother training although I'm representing m ycountry" Harmison continually gets chances.

Hoggard must've upset someone at the ECB to not be in the team and especially to be behind hacks like Darren Pattinson & Amjad Khan in the pecking order. It's a joke.

 

[oitoitoi]

we have the better bowling by far.

You really think so? Anderson will be dangerous while the ball swings but will probably go for a few runs too. I guarantee Broad will average over 35 (at least) in the series, the Aussies are going to target him big time. Flintoff always looks the part but doesn't actually take too many wickets, doubtful that he can stay fit for 5 tests too. For me how effective Swann is is a big factor for England, if the Aussies neuter him this English attack looks pretty toothless, however I see him getting the wood on a couple of Aussie batsmen, Ponting and Hussey perhaps. Any other bowler England play will likely be cannon fodder (I'd like to see Rashid in though along side Swann).

Australia on the other hand, Johnson....if he bowls anything like he did against South Africa England ain't got a hope frankly, very real possibility of him injuring a few people too. Don't know why you don't rate Siddle, looked good to me, good pace, accuracy, bounce, excellent stamina, doesn't swing it a lot but I can see him having a sub 30 average for the series. Clark, seems ideal in England and if he's fit and firing will cause plenty of problems for the English batsmen, particularly Pietersen early (doesn't like that off stump line early on) as well as Collingwood and Cook (poor footwork). Lee could be a big weakness IMO, he just isn't the type of bowler for English conditions (though I'd have him over Macdonald any day), still should be a shoe in for limited overs cricket but I wouldn't have him in my test side. I'm not Hilfenhaus's biggest fan but he could be handy in England. Watson's a good support bowler too. Reckon Katich and Clarke will chip in here and there as well.

I don't think there's that much difference in the batting with the series in England, though I think the depth of the Aussie line up with Johnson at 8 (on the smallish grounds in England his power hitting should be pretty effective) and Haddin (backing to have an excellent tour) over Prior (guaranteeing a sub 30 average series for him) will be the difference.

The difference between the 2 sides isn't enormous, but unless the pitch is turning Australia can do everything England can but better, in some cases by a distance.

 

[rivera213]

You really think so? Anderson will be dangerous while the ball swings but will probably go for a few runs too. I guarantee Broad will average over 35 (at least) in the series, the Aussies are going to target him big time. Flintoff always looks the part but doesn't actually take too many wickets, doubtful that he can stay fit for 5 tests too. For me how effective Swann is is a big factor for England, if the Aussies neuter him this English attack looks pretty toothless, however I see him getting the wood on a couple of Aussie batsmen, Ponting and Hussey perhaps. Any other bowler England play will likely be cannon fodder (I'd like to see Rashid in though along side Swann).

Australia on the other hand, Johnson....if he bowls anything like he did against South Africa England ain't got a hope frankly, very real possibility of him injuring a few people too. Don't know why you don't rate Siddle, looked good to me, good pace, accuracy, bounce, excellent stamina, doesn't swing it a lot but I can see him having a sub 30 average for the series. Clark, seems ideal in England and if he's fit and firing will cause plenty of problems for the English batsmen, particularly Pietersen early (doesn't like that off stump line early on) as well as Collingwood and Cook (poor footwork). Lee could be a big weakness IMO, he just isn't the type of bowler for English conditions (though I'd have him over Macdonald any day), still should be a shoe in for limited overs cricket but I wouldn't have him in my test side. I'm not Hilfenhaus's biggest fan but he could be handy in England. Watson's a good support bowler too. Reckon Katich and Clarke will chip in here and there as well.

I don't think there's that much difference in the batting with the series in England, though I think the depth of the Aussie line up with Johnson at 8 (on the smallish grounds in England his power hitting should be pretty effective) and Haddin (backing to have an excellent tour) over Prior (guaranteeing a sub 30 average series for him) will be the difference.

The difference between the 2 sides isn't enormous, but unless the pitch is turning Australia can do everything England can but better, in some cases by a distance.

I genuinely think we have the better unit by far, though Australia have the better batting so that will balance it off slightly.

I don't have hopes for Clark coming back too well tbph. It's a shame cos I like him, but 34 years old, injuries, lack of recent form etc. Doesn't look good at all.

Lee I doubt can last the distance of a tough 5-match series bowling 15-18+ overs per innings.

I'm definitely not worried that we will capitulate- which was always the fear with teams including McGrath, Gillespie, Lee & Warne.

Johnson is absolute top notch, his average is equivalent to 23 with a SR in the high 40's during 1970-2000.

Siddle's figures look great but he only bowled straight. Apparently he can swing the ball, we'll have to see, but without the bounce like in South Africa, I will be really pissed off if our batsmen get out to him regularly (of course, you can't legislate for jaffas).

I think (and have bet) that Pietersen will get most runs in the series.

Cook's front foot problem is getting better. Realistically he will never be a Gower, but he is working on it and in his century against West Indies, hit some beautiful front-foot shots.

Strauss needs to step it up. Simple as that.

Collingwood isn't world class but is gutsy.

Prior needs to both keep wicket like a good'un and average 45+ (since he will probably bat @ 6). I don't see him as a 45 average man @ test level but hopefully he proves me wrong.

Whatever the result, we wont be pwned like some people reckon. They don't have the bowlers to destroy us- Johnson aside. Even Mitch isn't the level McGrath or Gillespie were at peak.

We may lose by 1 game, but it wont be more than that. There isn't that much of a gap between us.

 

[Richard]

Fewer do than dont is a change from "extraordinary rule-exceptions"

As I say - I should really have said the rarities are bowlers who bowl like Clark. I can't think of all that many occasions where it's happened to bowlers with easy, unrushed actions.

 

[Son Of Coco]

Siddle- very over-rated and got wickets due to poor batting rather than great bowling.

Have to disagree with you on Siddle, thought he bowled good lines in SA and deserved his wickets. Mcdonald hasn't been as bad as people like to make out either.

I think you're over-rating the English bowling a tad too, but there are a few unknowns in the Australian line up with Lee and Clark's comebacks from injury. It's also possible Clark's recent poor form was directly attributed to him carrying an injury. He could be a much better bowler fully fit again. Did fine without them in SA though so I think we can do well again if they're in some sort of reasonable form.

England supporters full of confidence is good to see, but after the Windies I'm not sure it's entirely warranted. It wasn't long ago they got bowled out for 51 in the West Indies and the WI team didn't look that interested in being in England. Australia will be I'd imagine.

I guess we'll see when The Ashes actually kick off, and one of us will be wrong
I certainly think it'll be fairly close.

 

[Burgey]

It's the most bowler friendly of any of the 5 wickets in the Ashes.

Of course, the weather is always a big part but if it holds up, the Cardiff game will be a result.




Johnson- best bowler in the world IMO.
Siddle- very over-rated and got wickets due to poor batting rather than great bowling.
Lee- past his best, still could do the biz in ODI and T20.
Clark- past his best and has had injuries plus is 34.
Hilfenhaus- close call to whether he is actually test class or not.
McDonald- Probably the worst allrounder in international cricket, don't know why he's in the Aussie squad.I haven't seen enough of Bollinger to know how good he is.

Tait I doubt will plays tests since he hasn't been picked for this Ashes when the seam bowling is as bad as it ever since I've been watching cricket. He seems to be regarded as a specialist limited overs player in CA's view.

For the 2010/11 Ashes, the situation should be better. But at the moment, Australi'as seam department is poor by any standards.
Don't get me wrong, our bowling isn't great either, but Australia's is especially bad. It makes me laugh when people think we'll get thrashed in the Ashes. Batting doesn't win matches, it sets them up and saves them but bowling wins matches and at home, we have the better bowling by far.

Post quoted for possible Greigy come August.

 

[Richard]

Siddle's figures look great but he only bowled straight. Apparently he can swing the ball, we'll have to see, but without the bounce like in South Africa, I will be really pissed off if our batsmen get out to him regularly (of course, you can't legislate for jaffas).

I'd prepare to be pissed-off TBH - our batsmen are far worse than South Africa's so there's no real reason to assume they'll outdo SA's efforts against Siddle.

And he has demonstrated his ability to swing the ball, albeit not yet bowled especially well via doing so.