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Semi Final 1 - England v South Africa

flibbertyjibber

Cricket Web: All-Time Legend
Can't call it a choke when they are thumped. Choking is throwing away a good position which they were never in.

Think they did well to get out of their group with so many stars out of the side.
 

MW1304

International Captain
What do people think of potential final opponents? I'd rather play India personally, think it would make for a great match up. And I'd rather beat them than SL.
 

Cabinet96

Global Moderator
I'd rather beat them than SL, but I don't want to be facing India. I probably ought to be agreeing with you, given that we lost to Sri Lanka last week, and only lost 3-2 in India a few months ago, but I just really like the look of their side. Bowling attack looks about as good as I've seen for an India side. Kumar is a gun new ball bowler, and I can just picture us getting unstuck against Ashwin and Jadeja in the middle.
 

straw man

International Coach
For me, there's only so many times you can hear the same wrong thing repeated - literally just repeated, it's not even making a joke - and still find it funny.
Cricinfo disagrees with you
England v SA, Champions Trophy, semi-final, The Oval : Gary Kirsten accepts South Africa choked | Cricket News | ICC Champions Trophy | ESPN Cricinfo
... which is so surprising given cricinfo's history of eschewing lazy journalism, stereotypes and cliche.

But then again, Kirsten did say it. I guess South Africa have tried denial, anger, bargaining and depression over the last decade+ and have failed to shrug off the media's obsession with this term, so will the media buy Acceptance? No imo, not while they keep getting such a great reaction whenever they poke SA with that stick.
 

Jono

Virat Kohli (c)
For me, there's only so many times you can hear the same wrong thing repeated - literally just repeated, it's not even making a joke - and still find it funny.
What has GF said that is wrong here? Didn't say they choked. Didn't post any choke pic or meme. Just said their collapse was piss poor just like 2007. You can't tell me that South African lineup was a 8-80 lineup, even against a good bowling attack.

It was not a choke, but it was a poor performance. No matter how well England bowled.
 

Pothas

Hall of Fame Member
No. Drop Bell and move KP to open when he is fit to return.
Wonder if Morgan will come under any pressure. Unlikely that he will be dropped at this stage but has been in poor form for a while. Remember that distant time when KP was amazing at ODIs and batted at 5? I know his only recent success has come opening but I would not be against seeing him there again.
 

Adders

Cricketer Of The Year
No. Drop Bell and move KP to open when he is fit to return.
Ian Bell averages over 50 since taking on the opening role. To be honest if you want KP back opening you'd have to move Cook before Bell.

KP ****ed this up for himself and can stay at 4 until one of the top 3 starts struggling and makes a spot for him. From where I'm sitting our top 4 is set in concrete once all fit.
 

social

Hall of Fame Member
What has GF said that is wrong here? Didn't say they choked. Didn't post any choke pic or meme. Just said their collapse was piss poor just like 2007. You can't tell me that South African lineup was a 8-80 lineup, even against a good bowling attack.

It was not a choke, but it was a poor performance. No matter how well England bowled.
The thing is that, aside from the excellent Anderson, England didn't bowl terribly well as both Broad and Finn were rubbish whilst Tredwell was just Tredwell and the rest looked exactly what they are - part-timers

To be 8 for nothing against that attack on that pitch was wayyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyy worse than being poor - it was absolutely pathetic
 

Spark

Global Moderator
Cricinfo disagrees with you
England v SA, Champions Trophy, semi-final, The Oval : Gary Kirsten accepts South Africa choked | Cricket News | ICC Champions Trophy | ESPN Cricinfo
... which is so surprising given cricinfo's history of eschewing lazy journalism, stereotypes and cliche.

But then again, Kirsten did say it. I guess South Africa have tried denial, anger, bargaining and depression over the last decade+ and have failed to shrug off the media's obsession with this term, so will the media buy Acceptance? No imo, not while they keep getting such a great reaction whenever they poke SA with that stick.
"Choking" for them has just become a byword for their general mental weakness surrounding knockout matches. Whether it falls under the strict definition of choking is neither here nor there as far as they're concerned: they have a serious issue between the ears when it comes to these type of games, and they're not going to get out of it using semantics.
 

Prince EWS

Global Moderator
"Choking" for them has just become a byword for their general mental weakness surrounding knockout matches. Whether it falls under the strict definition of choking is neither here nor there as far as they're concerned: they have a serious issue between the ears when it comes to these type of games, and they're not going to get out of it using semantics.
Yeah but that's definitely not why they lost this game. It's the worst example of a choke ever, seriously. They over-performed to get to where they did, then they had their lack of quality batsmen exposed after their anchor was knocked over by a good ball. They actually managed to claw their way back into the game from a hopeless position from that point. This had nothing to do with mental weakness at all; they actually showed mental strength in this tournament by overcoming their absentees for a while and hanging in there when all hope looked lost in the semi.

You can't just say choke, or mental weakness, or whatever, whenever South Africa get knocked out of a world tournament or bat poorly. This time they just didn't have a very good side.
 

kykweer.proteas

International Debutant
Yeah but that's definitely not why they lost this game. It's the worst example of a choke ever, seriously. They over-performed to get to where they did, then they had their lack of quality batsmen exposed after their anchor was knocked over by a good ball. They actually managed to claw their way back into the game from a hopeless position from that point. This had nothing to do with mental weakness at all; they actually showed mental strength in this tournament by overcoming their absentees for a while and hanging in there when all hope looked lost in the semi.

You can't just say choke, or mental weakness, or whatever, whenever South Africa get knocked out of a world tournament or bat poorly. This time they just didn't have a very good side.
On the ball, and most of us South Africans know this, Kirsten reacted emotionally, because he expects a firestorm in South Africa for some reason and it wont be anything like that.

Sucks to get so close and lose, but we are at best the 4th if not 5th best team in the world and that is thinking positively and then we had a few vital injuries none more so than Steyn who is bowling better than he ever has before.

The toss mattered, but none more than how we reacted to it, even our team selection is wobbly, with Alviro not opening our batting order was always going to be brittle and without Steyn and Morkel our bowling was always going to be toothless and this loss is nothing compared to the hidings we are going to get in Lanka.

Just let us play vs Pakistan please.
 

Jono

Virat Kohli (c)
:laugh: @ Kirsten calling it a choke.

Basically proof that the fans and media constantly hammering the "choke" and "mentally weak" tag has well and truly entered the locker room, to the point its not even used properly. The fact that one of the most measured and rational coaches of recent times in Kirsten has used the choke word is amazing. The fact he uses it when, for once, South Africa didn't actually choke or weren't actually mentally weak, is even more amazing!

Hilarious really.
 

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