Sachin - The Underperformer - Kapil Dev

[Sanz]

And as for Kapil I don't know all that much about his off-field "exploits" but he'd be far from the only ex-player to be a bit bitter about one of his successors.

That would be a silly assumption to make.

 

[Uppercut]

I find that comment in bad taste however. I don't know what made you make that comment. I know Tendulkar's words are given more value than any present cricketer's in media. It was evident from the follow up to his comment on modifying ODIs.

What does that have to do with Kapil being stupid?

 

[Sir Alex]

What does that have to do with Kapil being stupid?

I edited my earlier post. I accidently misread Tendulkar instead of Kapil.

 

[Jono]

Haaaaaaaaaave you met Yuvraj?

Lol, that's my point.

He's not exactly accummulating the records is he?

Plus Sachin still has double the talent of Yuvi IMO.

Someone who has a similar 'talent level' at cricket in my opinion (of youngsters) is a JP Duminy.

 

[Edged&Taken]

wasn't Kapil guilty of accepting bribes to do exactly the same - under perform in a few matches , according to that slimeball Prabhakar .

 

[Ikki]

This is one of the worst articles I've read trying to praise a player.

 

[Hurricane]

I think his consistency is his legacy.

That said I think he deserves a 300. He seems to be missing from the list of people who have scored one.

The crowd gave him a standing ovation on his last inning at the basin reserve this past summer. I waited all day to watch him bat and he made like 8 before being caught off Vettori at slip. I was dissappointed.

 

[honestbharani]

Stupid article.. I can understand him saying Sachin should have done better, but personally watching them bat, I don't really see any "clearcut" evidence to suggest he is on a different plane to a Lara or a Richards... Sure, he may be better technically than Lara but I always thought Lara's eye for a boundary and placement were better than Sachin... Plus, Sachin is THE hardest worker in this Indian side and has been since I remember. Once Gavaskar mentioned that him and Robin Singh and Rahul Dravid were the only ones in the Indian side to show any intensity in practice.


I fear Kaps is wrong on this one, completely wrong. That is my opinion, at least.

 

[Zinzan]

The premise/contention of the article isn't necessarily rubbish. One could argue that Tendulkar should have been better than he was -.

Nah, actually agree with Richard on this, one could make the same argument for virtually every player in the history of the game.

If anything, Tendulkar's longevity in the game suggests he's both over-performed & over-achieved against most original expectations.

 

[Richard]

That would be a silly assumption to make.

Not really. It may or may not be true but it would not be a remotely silly assumption to make.

 

[Arjun]

While all of us love Sachin, and tend to criticise most columnists who are not too flattering. Enough of them have not achieved even a pinch of what he has. Kapil Dev, however, is leagues ahead, and is another great all-time player for India, and has also given a lot more for his team than the average Sachin critic. He speaks from a specific perspective, and that should be taken seriously. He's a palyer who has played by force, and that's what he expects from every great player. While Sachin has often needed the support of the rest of the team, Kapil has often tried his best to win a match on his own, impossible as it may be.

To sum it up, if you love Sachin, defend him, take a potshot at a critic, but this time, keep in mind the credentials of the person who has expressed his opinion.

 

[Black_Warrior]

Although I am one of those who rate Sachin higher than the likes of Brian Lara and Ricky Ponting, I can actually understand from where Kapil Dev is coming from. Its not just Kapil, there is a pretty strong belief that a player of Sachin's calibre has not scored enough double and triple centuries.
I remember a statement made by Barry Richards a couple of years back where he said the reason he would pick Lara over Sachin was the fact that when Lara gets going, he gets a 200 plus score whereas Saching get 140.
Now that is not entirely untrue either. When I see people like Younis Khan, Virender Sehwag, Mahela Jayawardene with 300s to their name, I do question myself why a player much better than them has not been able to accomplish that.

My best friend and I always have these Lara-Sachin discussions and he rates Lara better so he always uses this argument. My argument in defence of that is ofcourse is the consistency Sachin has displayed over the 20 years where Lara does not even come close.

However, having said that, I do find this statement from Kapil "In the same breath, I would have ideally liked to see him go from 30 to 50 in three overs and to go from 50 to 80 on any pitch, against any bowler in 5 overs" pretty immature and not something I would expect from a former test great.

 

[Jono]

Sure Arjun, but don't play the man, play the subject matter.

If someone else had written that article instead of Kapil, it would have been even more roundly criticised as making very little sense.

No one, whether its Kapil Dev, Viv Richards or Bradman speaking from the grave should be respected when they say "Sachin should have at least one 400". Like they're that easy to get, ummm only one guy in cricket history has it!

 

[Jono]

Although I am one of those who rate Sachin higher than the likes of Brian Lara and Ricky Ponting, I can actually understand from where Kapil Dev is coming from. Its not just Kapil, there is a pretty strong belief that a player of Sachin's calibre has not scored enough double and triple centuries.
I remember a statement made by Barry Richards a couple of years back where he said the reason he would pick Lara over Sachin was the fact that when Lara gets going, he gets a 200 plus score whereas Saching get 140.
Now that is not entirely untrue either. When I see people like Younis Khan, Virender Sehwag, Mahela Jayawardene with 300s to their name, I do question myself why a player much better than them has not been able to accomplish that.

I understand your point, but Kallis doesn't have a double ton. I doubt many would choose Younis or Jayawardene over Kallis to be honest, despite their double and triple tons.

 

[Arjun]

Sure Arjun, but don't play the man, play the subject matter.

If someone else had written that article instead of Kapil, it would have been even more roundly criticised as making very little sense.

No one, whether its Kapil Dev, Viv Richards or Bradman speaking from the grave should be respected when they say "Sachin should have at least one 400". Like they're that easy to get, ummm only one guy in cricket history has it!

While 'at least one 400'- possibly the most irrelevant record ever- is asking for the moon, I find that most of the critics here treat it as an article by, say, Rodney Hogg or Paul Wilson or Ted Corbett or Mike Atherton. Some of the anti-Kapil comments are proof of that.

While it may be too much to ask, to score 50 in five overs or 30 in less than three, that's how Kapil played, that's how world-beating teams play now, so that's why Kapil expects the same. I'd say, it's 50-50, neutral, stalemate on this article. It has its merits and demerits equally.

 

[Black_Warrior]

I understand your point, but Kallis doesn't have a double ton. I doubt many would choose Younis or Jayawardene over Kallis to be honest, despite their double and triple tons.

Then you can even use that argument against Kallis. For me personally, it doesnt make a difference, I would still pick Kallis over Jayawardene and Younis and not because he bowls aswell, even if he didnt bowl I would have picked him. My regard for Sachin would not increase if he smashes a 300 nor does his lack of any 300 or many 200 plus scores dminish his value in my eyes. But if people have an argument like that against Tendulkar and Kallis, I would not dismiss it as rubbish but consider it a reasonable claim.

See its like this, I havent seen Bradman, Sobers, Hobbs bat, all I have seen are their batting records, averages, milestones, 100s, 200s and thats what makes me conclude that they were great players. Similarly, 20 years down the track, a new generation who havent seen Sachin bat, would probably be surprised to see him without a 300 plus score.

While it may be too much to ask, to score 50 in five overs or 30 in less than three, that's how Kapil played, that's how world-beating teams play now, so that's why Kapil expects the same. I'd say, it's 50-50, neutral, stalemate on this article. It has its merits and demerits equally.

Yes but in every match against any bowling attack regardless of the situation? Sachin himself is very much capable of doing that but you cant possibly do that in every match especially if the bowling attack comprises of the likes McGrath, Wasim, Donald etc.

 

[Richard]

I understand your point, but Kallis doesn't have a double ton. I doubt many would choose Younis or Jayawardene over Kallis to be honest, despite their double and triple tons.

If Kallis didn't bowl, I honestly wouldn't put much if anything between him and Younis\Jayawardene.

 

[Arjun]

Yes but in every match against any bowling attack regardless of the situation? Sachin himself is very much capable of doing that but you cant possibly do that in every match especially if the bowling attack comprises of the likes McGrath, Wasim, Donald etc.

He's referring to instances such as that one in Hyderabad, where every batsman had to go hammer and tongs at the bowling, because of which some batsmen perished early. These days, you don't get bowlers of that quality. These days, you get flat pitches. These days, if you don't try to score at a rapid rate at certain venues in certain matches, you're finished. It's a catch-22 situation when the bowling is decent, a wicket may have fallen and the total to chase is a massive 350. That demanded a 50 in five overs.

 

[Uppercut]

I understand your point, but Kallis doesn't have a double ton. I doubt many would choose Younis or Jayawardene over Kallis to be honest, despite their double and triple tons.

I don't really consider these things when judging players. Lara's phenomenally big innings in bore-draw games mean very little to me. It's obviously useful to be able to cash in massively when the going's especially easy, it's just not personally something I look for in a batsman.

 

[Jono]

If Kallis didn't bowl, I honestly wouldn't put much if anything between him and Younis\Jayawardene.

I'm quite surprised to read that actually.

Interesting. I respectfully disagree.