Repercussions

[Cevno]

As said by mnay before, Zaheer missing is a great blow, but imho, India's batting has so far not been up to English bowling.

awta.......the indian batting has been below par and many times it seems it has been more a lack of application from the batsmen than anything else

True.

But the batsman were due a bad series and affected by different injuries and even in South Africa the bowling wasn't great without Zaheer in the first test.Doesn't help the batsman when batting that there is a big score on the board or knowing that the bowlers won't be able to take 20 wickets for a reasonable score.

What i was saying was despite this series i am not worried about the batting in future tours when all are fit and firing, but the bowling without Zaheer is still the biggest concern on overseas tour. He has become super important now as the leader of the attack on strong overseas tours .

 

[centurymaker]

yeah the Praveen's and the Ishant have been dicked by the Laxman's and the Sachin's this is not a Windies quartet that will blow away teams they need batsman to put runs on the board to apply pressure this is what has been missing for India in this series.

yeah
if india can somehow get 400 this time around, you'll see a much improved performance from the bowlers.

 

[Bun]

Cevno, is your last paragraph not indicative of a serious problem with the culture within the Indian team? Similar to the England football team perhaps?

sir, with all due respect, this indian team was world no.1 for 2 yrs and just won the world cup, it's a ****ing travesty to compare them to your pitiful football team.

 

[GIMH]

Not really, because achievement has **** all to do with my point but it's good to see the quality of your argument remains consistent; instead of we are number one it is now we were number one.

Nonetheless, India's millionaires club was tested properly for the first time in a while (in Tests) this summer and came up short. If they don't want to be told what they need to do, then their egod need taking down a peg or two. And that's where the similarity with England's footballers lies.

 

[Bun]

Not really, because achievement has **** all to do with my point but it's good to see the quality of your argument remains consistent; instead of we are number one it is now we were number one.

Nonetheless, India's millionaires club was tested properly for the first time in a while (in Tests) this summer and came up short. If they don't want to be told what they need to do, then their egod need taking down a peg or two. And that's where the similarity with England's footballers lies.

as to your first para, dear most respected sir, i suggest you read ozymandias. to cut a long story short, nothing lasts forever.

as to your second para, lol sir. the same team has been subjected to similar if not more gruelling circumstances before too. there is a reason they were no.1 sir. and that's got nothing to do with fudging the ICC records, not with the millions they possess, o most distinguished member who won the botm.

the difference is that your majesty's precious footy players have unfortunately won little as a team, in the last few decades as compared to this indian team. the pedigree is simply incomparable.

 

[GIMH]

And once again you manage to miss my point, which is that I am referring to attitude not achievement. Carry on with your ****ty straw man posts though, you've asked what the problem is but have responded explosively to everybody who dares speak their mind.

India aren't number one anymore and that's because they aren't good enough to be. If certain things don't change, it will be a long time until they get near again. Hide behind past results all you want, there are players in the India team who would have ribs removed if they could because they think so highly of themselves.

 

[Bun]

sir, it's you who unfortunately whose arguments a re looking brittle, because, india has more pedigree and experience at occupying top positions and winning world cups as compared to your esteemed team.

your team has without doubt commanded the respect of friends and foe alike with their performance in this summer, but one summer doesn't make a case for delivering biblical advice to other teams.

if i were you, i'd keep my fingers crossed to see this team occupying atleast half the period at the top the previous one managed to. and lacking versatile bowlers, i am not xconvinced so.

 

[GIMH]

Haha, third post in a row completely ignoring my points. I don't know why I ****ing bothered responding to you, waste of mine and everyone's time. I'll be ignoring you from here on in and would appreciate you not replying or quoting me, I don't like you you see and it's certainly not good for forum atmosphere for me to engage you and your alterior motives in conversation.

 

[Bun]

i am flattered. to summarize, i can ignore points only when they exist. however that certainly has not been the case here.

i shall allow you a graceful retreat, and wish you goos night.

 

[Cevno]

Nonetheless, India's millionaires club was tested properly for the first time in a while (in Tests) this summer and came up short. If they don't want to be told what they need to do, then their egod need taking down a peg or two. And that's where the similarity with England's footballers lies.

And once again you manage to miss my point, which is that I am referring to attitude not achievement. Carry on with your ****ty straw man posts though, you've asked what the problem is but have responded explosively to everybody who dares speak their mind.

India aren't number one anymore and that's because they aren't good enough to be. If certain things don't change, it will be a long time until they get near again. Hide behind past results all you want, there are players in the India team who would have ribs removed if they could because they think so highly of themselves.

Sorry, but that is not really the truth and is a naive argument used by the public on the streets burning effigies of players when they get knocked out of the World cup in the first round tbh.
As i explained in the previous post you are going on a completely different tangent to what i said. There are basic differences with regards to the English football team too as i said before. Not really a valid comparison based on one series and a overreaction.

 

[GIMH]

Hang on, whose burning effigies and whose getting knocked out in the first round? I'm confused

 

[Top_Cat]

yeah
if india can somehow get 400 this time around, you'll see a much improved performance from the bowlers.

Maybe. Or they'll conceded 500. If I was in the England camp, I'd at least be confident of matching India's total even if they get 400+. This is mainly because only Ishant of the current lot is a bit of a front-runner i.e. will step up in the event of a big score. Praveen's bowled well so I doubt there's much he could do to improve his bowling and, even with scoreboard pressure, you'd back yourself against Sree and Mishra.

 

[Cevno]

Hang on, whose burning effigies and whose getting knocked out in the first round? I'm confused

The Indian team in the first round of the world cup in 2007 after which in the overreaction of the moment everyone lay cricket follower who was protesting and being naive and a fool was claiming on the streets that they had become too big stars, not trying enough and more interested in advertising.
Don't think you can compare anyone to the English football team due to basic differences as i said before due to one series. The dynamics are different in 2 contexts. As Scholes said some English footballers are not that interested in playing for England.

 

[GIMH]

Right I got ya.

Well obviously there are differences - India's cricketers, or at least its top ones, are better than their English football equivalents. But in terms of the public expectations and the player attitudes, I think there are similarities. You said the Indian players won't tolerate someone coming and basically telling them what to do. English footballers have been known to respond negatively to this sort of thing as well. And it's indicative that these players are full of so much hype, press and money that they start to believe in it all.

Of course the dynamics are best, but I think there are similarities here.

 

[Cevno]

You are trying to draw similarities between two different contexts after one series which is a overreaction and then there are innumerable differences between the 2.And when i said they won't listen to someone who wants to control them, it all depends in what regards and what is he telling them and how. Gary Kirsten showed how to work with them properly.

As for terms like "millionaire clubs" and hyped up it's not like English cricketers are beggars or the English media doesn't hype them. Just watch them hype them up right now before the next fall ,when they demean them at the next fall just like the Indian media. Yes they get adoration but you are taking what i said about dressing room dynamics in a completely different tangent which i disagree with .

The problem with the England football team though sometimes over exxaggerated by the English media are different to which i won't really want to go on here. Bun also has a point about the success of the 2 teams in recent times. It's not like the Indian cricketers they have build their reputation based on Club cricket or IPL and are not that bothered to play for India.

 

[smash84]

Bun go Bun'd

 

[marc71178]

Seems they've learned something - but a bit like shutting the stable door after the Horse has bolted.

 

[Cevno]

Better late than never i guess, though hopefully it is before the series and not in between.

 

[Spark]

I can't imagine there'd be much time in between, our summer is pretty packed.

 

[vic_orthdox]

The fact that players need a 'matey' character. I dunno the specifics obviously, but I think a balance is important. Being a complete authoritarian isn't the answer but neither is slapping the players on the arse and being one of the lads. Each dressing room is different though so maybe I'm reading too much into it, I just took Cevno to mean that the players won't tolerate a figure of seniority.

I don't think that it's necessarily to do with these Indian players, I think it's more to do with the Indian cricket culture in general. Having played against India underage teams a few times, they seem to play best when they are doing whatever they've done to get themselves there.

It's like Raina, for example, he actually plays better when he doesn't even know that he has a short ball problem, and just sees the ball and hits the ball. But the more that he is made aware of it, the more he thinks about other things and the worse off he ends up. It's something that is the same with all cricketers, but the Indians are so naturally talented that it is more apparent in them.

Because they are so talented, and this is no rubbish but in terms of natural talent, the Indian players are ahead of all other countries IMO, they need to be shown how to improve rather than be told, as such. As I said, I think it's more of a general cultural difference, rather than to do with the individual players themselves.