Predictions for England winter tours in IND & PAK

[Dasa]

If it is the time for silly comparison's,

Here's my Pakistan/England mix 11.

1. Strauss
2. Trescothic
3. Vaughan
4. Inzamam
5. Youhana
6. Kamal
7. Flintoff
8. Jones/Akmal
9. Harmisson
10. Akhtar
11. Simon Jones

The only questionable choice probably is Kamal, but I believe him to be a better (or at least equal) batsman to Peiterson. If Graham Thorpe had still been playing, he'd have snagged that place up without a second thought.

Looks OK - Mine'd be:
1. Strauss
2. Trescothick
3. Vaughan
4. Inzamam
5. Youhana
6. Flintoff
7. Akmal
8. Akhtar
9. Harmison
10. Simon Jones
11. Kaneria

 

[FaaipDeOiad]

Looks OK - Mine'd be:
1. Strauss
2. Trescothick
3. Vaughan
4. Inzamam
5. Youhana
6. Flintoff
7. Akmal
8. Akhtar
9. Harmison
10. Simon Jones
11. Kaneria

Yep, that's mine as well.

And for England and India...

Virender Sehwag
Andrew Strauss
Michael Vaughan (c)
Rahul Dravid
Sachin Tendulkar
Andrew Flintoff
Geraint Jones (k)
Anil Kumble
Harbhajan Singh
Steve Harmison
Simon Jones

 

[Scaly piscine]

Kamal is probably the only player in the world (who has played more than 10 tests) whose average isn't bloated by playing against Bangladesh and Zimbabwe.

Kamal's average against Australia stands at 48.5 from two innings, including a high-score of 87 IN Australia so the performance-of-Pieterson-against-Australia arguement is moot. (so far, in his six innings against the aussies, Pieterson has played failed and succeeded thrice each which is about even with Kamal's efforts against Australia)

One decent innings against Australia on a pitch where Australia scored 568 doesn't mean anything, KP has scored 5 substantial innings against Australia in ODIs and Tests and looked a different class altogether in that first Test when everyone else struggled. Also Kamal should have had his average bloated by WI. India's bowling attack isn't much better either - especially if as a batsman you're in reasonably familiar conditions.

 

[FaaipDeOiad]

Also, the most tests anyone in the Australian team has played against Bangladesh and Zimbabwe is 3. It's not really nobody in the world that hasn't had their averages inflated by playing Bangladesh and Zimbabwe, just that in certain counties it's extremely common.

 

[Dasa]

Yep, that's mine as well.

And for England and India...

Virender Sehwag
Andrew Strauss
Michael Vaughan (c)
Rahul Dravid
Sachin Tendulkar
Andrew Flintoff
Geraint Jones (k)
Anil Kumble
Harbhajan Singh
Steve Harmison
Simon Jones

That looks pretty much spot on - although I'd be tempted to put Dinesh Karthick in there...he's unproven so far because he's played so little, but already looks a better pure 'keeper than Jones.

 

[tooextracool]

well Vaughan's record isn't posh, but i'll back him to come good some day, plus i dont see anything wrong with Strauss nor Jones....

people have been pushing vaughan to come good for the last 3 years now, you cant allow someone to play ODI cricket for 15 years in the hope that 'he might come good some day'. he doesnt have the tools to succeed in ODI cricket ATM- his inability to pick up singles and to take the aerial route.
strauss averages less than 30 when you remove games against bangladesh.
and g.jones, im surprised that anyone can actually believe that theres nothing wrong with him, considering that he never deserved to be in the side in the first place. his average against teams other than zimbabwe is 17. and he cant keep.

 

[tooextracool]

freddie will has an upper hand of razzaq but only by a little margain.

maybe when razzaq learns to bowl in test cricket.
or bat.

 

[EnglishRose]

England will need luck with the tosses particularly in India.

A lot of people don't mention it but I do think the Aussies were fortunate to have won 3 tosses in a row in India in October 2004.
I just got the impression from the Aussie side both on the 2004 tour as well as for the TVS cup in 2003, they were extremely reluctant to put India in if they won the toss.
Understandable perfectly --- facing Kumble and Harbhajan batting second is not a pleasant experience. Also means you give the Indian batsmen optimum use of the batting conditions.

If England bat first they have a decent chance of toppling India. But if India win, i'd back Kumble and Harbhajan to nail the Pommies.
Vaughan has to be realistic if he calls correctly at the toss - he must bat first if the pitch is a typical Indian wcket.
I just can't see batsmen like Bell, Strauss, Flintoff cutting it out when there's a score to chase and men huddled around the bat. Flintoff is England's best bowler but I still feel he is a bit hit and miss as a batsman and I think both Woolmer and Chappell will note that in their bowling plans.

 

[EnglishRose]

Of course rather conveniently forgetting Australia went to India in 2001 with Mcgrath, Gillespie, Fleming (a far superior bowler to Hoggard) and Kasper ( a better attack than what England have) and lost 2-1.

Late 80's, pakistan did beat India 1-0 with a victory at Bangalore by 16 runs (where Iqbal Qasim and Tauseef Ahmed took 18 out of 20 wickets). In case you hadn't noticed, they were both spinners.
And the Windies didn't beat India in the late 80's in India, the 1987 series was a 1-1 draw.
And Pakistan's victory in 1999, it was Saqlain that did most of the damage not Waqar and Wasim.
You really don't look into the facts very well do you

 

[Swervy]

Of course rather conveniently forgetting Australia went to India in 2001 with Mcgrath, Gillespie, Fleming (a far superior bowler to Hoggard) and Kasper ( a better attack than what England have) and lost 2-1.

Late 80's, pakistan did beat India 1-0 with a victory at Bangalore by 16 runs (where Iqbal Qasim and Tauseef Ahmed took 18 out of 20 wickets). In case you hadn't noticed, they were both spinners.
And the Windies didn't beat India in the late 80's in India, the 1987 series was a 1-1 draw.
And Pakistan's victory in 1999, it was Saqlain that did most of the damage not Waqar and Wasim.
You really don't look into the facts very well do you

Of course rather conveniently forgetting I said India will not have faced as hostile a pace attack as Englands for a while....the Aussie 01 attack may have been better,but it certainly was a fast and aggressive as Englands is now..and fast aggressive bowling is something India dont particularly like

 

[EnglishRose]

Of course rather conveniently forgetting I said India will not have faced as hostile a pace attack as Englands for a while....the Aussie 01 attack may have been better,but it certainly was a fast and aggressive as Englands is now..and fast aggressive bowling is something India dont particularly like

Fast, aggressive bowling is of no use if it is not well directed.
Hostility is not purely about pace and aggression it's also about keeping the peressure on batsmen continuosly something that the Australian side of 2000-2001 were adept at.

Try again, Skippy.

 

[Swervy]

Fast, aggressive bowling is of no use if it is not well directed.
Hostility is not purely about pace and aggression it's also about keeping the peressure on batsmen continuosly something that the Australian side of 2000-2001 were adept at.

Try again, Skippy.

and so you are implying this English attack cannot maintain pressure then...I suggest you start watching this Ashes series,and have a look at how England have maintained huge pressure on the Australian batsman,with continuous fast bowling with a fair smattering of top rate reverse swing

 

[EnglishRose]

and so you are implying this English attack cannot maintain pressure then...I suggest you start watching this Ashes series,and have a look at how England have maintained huge pressure on the Australian batsman,with continuous fast bowling with a fair smattering of top rate reverse swing

Skippy, we're talking about 2 tours to the subcontinent.......
yeah England are bowling well on wickets they're used to at the moment....the question is how will they bowl in different conditions on the subcontinent ?

Flintoff will probably be dangerous he's in my view the best of the England bowlers.
The others I'm not so sure about.
Harmison hat been pretty unconvincing on pitches which don't have a lot of bounce in them and Hoggard will struggle to find conducive conditions on the subcontinent.
Giles I think will find the going a lot harder in 2005 than he did in 2000.
Can they bowl consistently well to maintain pressure in those conditions ??
Time will tell.....I'm still hedging by bets as to their effectiveness over there.

 

[Swervy]

Skippy, we're talking about 2 tours to the subcontinent.......
yeah England are bowling well on wickets they're used to at the moment....the question is how will they bowl in different conditions on the subcontinent ?

Flintoff will probably be dangerous he's in my view the best of the England bowlers.
The others I'm not so sure about.
Harmison hat been pretty unconvincing on pitches which don't have a lot of bounce in them and Hoggard will struggle to find conducive conditions on the subcontinent.
Giles I think will find the going a lot harder in 2005 than he did in 2000.
Can they bowl consistently well to maintain pressure in those conditions ??
Time will tell.....I'm still hedging by bets as to their effectiveness over there.

i am NOT saying England bowlers WILL do brilliantly out there, I am saying that if any pace attack in world cricket can suceed in India, it will be Englands.

My concern for England is that Harmison is a self confessed bad tourer. Regarding Hoggard, yes he does need conditions in his favour, but he did pretty good a few years back in India and in my opinion, he is a better bowler now

 

[luckyeddie]

i am NOT saying England bowlers WILL do brilliantly out there, I am saying that if any pace attack in world cricket can suceed in India, it will be Englands.

My concern for England is that Harmison is a self confessed bad tourer. Regarding Hoggard, yes he does need conditions in his favour, but he did pretty good a few years back in India and in my opinion, he is a better bowler now

That won't fly. Sports quiz time. Who once said the following?

I doubt it. England don't have great depth of talent particularly on the bowling front.

If the front line bowlers don't perform (and I fully expect Australia's batsmen to thrash the English bowlers who are bullying bangladesh atm), England will still have to persist with them

For a bonus, it was the same person who made my all-time favourite quote on this forum ever....

no iam not a muppet.......the english muppets are tec, richard, marc, scaly piscine, superkingdave, hinton, rubble, swervy, spacemonkey, halsey.
The nonsense posted by these guys is appalling.
the quality posters are people like Scallywag.

I'm appalled that I wasn't included amongst the muppets.

 

[EnglishRose]

That won't fly. Sports quiz time. Who once said the following?



For a bonus, it was the same person who made my all-time favourite quote on this forum ever....





I'm appalled that I wasn't included amongst the muppets.

Ah Geriatric Sanders......what a pleasure to hear from you again. Back from hibernation I see.
Did I ever mention that I am a proud Argentine ? I sure enjoyed the spectacle the other night when Beckham's lads put on such a great show against Denmark ....did did you see that Sanders ???
England are sure to win the World cup based on that performance......

 

[luckyeddie]

Ah Geriatric Sanders......what a pleasure to hear from you again. Back from hibernation I see.
Did I ever mention that I am a proud Argentine ? I sure enjoyed the spectacle the other night when Beckham's lads put on such a great show against Denmark ....did did you see that Sanders ???
England are sure to win the World cup based on that performance......

That was quite a lame troll, even by your own undeniably and unrivalled pathetic standards.

What has you being Argentinian got to do with anything?

No, I didn't see the game against Denmark - I work in Dublin, and the pub telly was showing the Republic of Ireland against Italy.

 

[Scaly piscine]

That was quite a lame troll, even by your own undeniably and unrivalled pathetic standards.

What has you being Argentinian got to do with anything?

No, I didn't see the game against Denmark - I work in Dublin, and the pub telly was showing the Republic of Ireland against Italy.

Sheesh you're right that was lame, England haven't won the Ashes in two decades and have never won the cricket World Cup but he goes on about a meaningless friendly in football in a cricket forum...

 

[Beleg]

One decent innings against Australia on a pitch where Australia scored 568 doesn't mean anything

It means what it was; a good innings against the best bowling attack in the world.

Are you saying that Aussie bowling attack is as worse as the Pakistani bowling attack? Or that whenever anyone scored around 100 runs in a total of 550 against a world-class team it was worthless?

By the same logic, at least one of Kevin Peiterson's Lord's innings were worthless.

KP has scored 5 substantial innings against Australia in ODIs and Tests and looked a different class altogether in that first Test when everyone else struggled.

Bringing ODI form into test discussions, are we? In the same vein, I wonder why he has failed to scored in innings where everyone else has not struggled? To say a player 'looks in a class of his own' after a miserly 3 innings is not only premature but blowing a players performance completely out of propotion. (I could have maybe understood it if he had scored three double centuries or something - but making the aforementioned call based on 3 scores around 60???)

Also Kamal should have had his average bloated by WI. India's bowling attack isn't much better either - especially if as a batsman you're in reasonably familiar conditions.

Asim Kamal's average against WI is 25, which, if anything has brought down his overall average. As for India's attack: well, playing in India or Pakistan, I'd choose both Kumble and Harbajhan ahead of any of the current English pacers. (bar maybe Jones, if he really does reverse it remotely as close as some english fans are raving)

 

[luckyeddie]

As for India's attack: well, playing in India or Pakistan, I'd choose both Kumble and Harbajhan ahead of any of the current English pacers. (bar maybe Jones, if he really does reverse it remotely as close as some english fans are raving)

I think you'll find that it's the Australians who are surprised at the form and ability of Jones to reverse-swing the ball - and not just the supporters.