Players who've overcome physical disadvantages

[Neil Pickup]

Yeah, that's another way of describing it. But, in terms of whether he is a leg or an off-spinner, he would be a leg-spinner because he turns it the same direction as Warne, just using his fingers instead of his wrist and with a different arm. Hogg would be a left arm off-spinner, and Murali is a right-arm off-spinner, regardless of the fact that he turns it with his wrist.

My impression is that "off spin" and "leg spin" have only ever been terms applied to right armers - alike to "slow left arm" and "chinaman", whilst "finger" and "wrist" spin have been all-encompassing,

 

[FaaipDeOiad]

My impression is that "off spin" and "leg spin" have only ever been terms applied to right armers - alike to "slow left arm" and "chinaman", whilst "finger" and "wrist" spin have been all-encompassing,

I suppose it depends.

For an example, howstat.com classes Bishen Bedi, Ashley Giles and Derek Underwood as "left arm leg spin" and Brad Hogg as "left arm off spin".

 

[C_C]

A few i can think of right now.

Tendulkar has a crushed big toe and severe back problems going back to the late 90s(its one of the reasons he doesnt step outside the crease and clobber spinners anymore).

Wasim Akram was a diabetic.

 

[social]

I suppose it depends.

For an example, howstat.com classes Bishen Bedi, Ashley Giles and Derek Underwood as "left arm leg spin" and Brad Hogg as "left arm off spin".

I have never heard the above expressions before and it sounds as though they were made up by a computer geek.

Generally, left arm finger spinners are referred to as "orthodox" whilst wrist spinners are referred to as "chinaman"

 

[Black Thunder]

Gary Sobers was born with either 4 or 6 fingers on his hand - can't remember which one. Would've thought he'd have cropped up in this thread by now.

 

[SJS]

Mervyn Dillon.

Born with nothing between his ears

 

[Langeveldt]

Ray Price suffered from Meningitis when he was a baby, had a one in five chance of survival, and was left deaf. He had an operation to restore his hearing when he was seven but it badly affected his balnce and coordination. He had to learn to walk again, and couldn't catch a ball, among other things. It took him years to recover.

Yet he became arguably the best spinner his country ever produced... What a guy.

Without doubt, a cracking story..

Douglas Marillier was told he may never walk again after a car accident in Harare smashed both his legs

 

[twctopcat]

Gary Sobers was born with either 4 or 6 fingers on his hand - can't remember which one. Would've thought he'd have cropped up in this thread by now.

Yeah he was born with an extra finger on each hand, though they were amputated at birth i think.

 

[Smudge]

All New Zealand sporting representatives have a terrible choking reflex in times of pressure - I think it's great that as a country, we are tackling this problem together.

 

[Richard]

Mike Brearley had no talent

Complete and utter rubbish.

 

[Richard]

Giles isn't a leg-spinner.

He is if he's bowling at right-handers.

 

[Richard]

Well technically Giles is a slow left arm, that is his definition, with paul adams/brad hogg being a chinaman, these bloomin lefties do nothing but complicate things.

Precisely - they render the "off"\"leg" definitions totally pointless, because you've got to change them all the time to accomodate whether the bowler and batsman is right or left arm.

 

[SJS]

Nehra .

Born with two left feet

 

[SJS]

Inzemaam.

Inherited an accutely deblitating condition called Shoaibitis

 

[Richard]

My impression is that "off spin" and "leg spin" have only ever been terms applied to right armers - alike to "slow left arm" and "chinaman", whilst "finger" and "wrist" spin have been all-encompassing,

Exactly - wristspin and fingerspin are the only definitions that make any sense whatsoever.

 

[Richard]

uhhh this got me thinking. If its a legspinner, they can be either a finger spinner (giles) or a wrist spinner (warne). But off-spinners are usually always finger spinners. Is Murali the only wrist spinning off-spinner?

Warne and any other normal wristspinner is an off-spinner every time they bowl at a left-hander.

 

[Son Of Coco]

Yeah, that's another way of describing it. But, in terms of whether he is a leg or an off-spinner, he would be a leg-spinner because he turns it the same direction as Warne, just using his fingers instead of his wrist and with a different arm. Hogg would be a left arm off-spinner, and Murali is a right-arm off-spinner, regardless of the fact that he turns it with his wrist.

I'd actually find that more confusing as I've been brought up with the traditional definitions of off and leg spin, and I guess that's why they have chinaman and orthodox for left-handers - to differentiate. It doesn't change for left and right handers either, as left arm orthodox is exactly that to a right or left handed batsman. They're four simple terms that tell you which way the stock ball is turning - to change it around for left and right handed batsmen etc (as Richard suggests) just confuses things. In my opinion, even though Murali's wrist apparently plays a part in his action, he's still a finger spinner...and I'm dubious as to whether anyone can prove without any shadow of a doubt that his fingers don't also come into play (well, they probably can, but anyway).

 

[Richard]

Well they come into play, but so do the fingers of any bowler.
I'd like to see a human-being who can grip a cricket ball with no use of his fingers!

 

[vic_orthdox]

murali probably could force the ball between his wrist and palm, and bowl out of that with that ridiculously flexible wrist of his.

 

[Richard]

He'd have a job bowling with it like that though.