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Pakistan Rise to Number 1

Zinzan

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Imran, besides himself being a top 5 cricketer of all time, also had some seriously great players alongside him.
One of the all-time greats for sure, but categorically a top 5 cricketer of all-time? I'm not so sure about that. I find it hard enough even splitting he and Keith Miller in terms of best bowling all-rounder of all-time, let alone putting him in the top 5.
 

vcs

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I love Misbah but its not even close.Imran won away series in India, England and was the only captain to draw a series in Windies in the 80's and then capped of with a world cup win.Imran would also skip home series unless the opponent was Westindies or India.
Yeah, I think he'd have to win in Australia and SA to be considered to have come close to Imran's achievements (probably still won't have matched them). But it's not a fair comparison because Misbah is operating in a different environment with nowhere near the backing or complete faith reposed in Imran at the time (by all accounts).
 

Zinzan

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Yeah, I think he'd have to win in Australia and SA to be considered to have come close to Imran's achievements (probably still won't have matched them).
Don't forget England too, let's not forget this was a drawn series, not a Pakistani win.
 

hendrix

Hall of Fame Member
One of the all-time greats for sure, but categorically a top 5 cricketer of all-time? I'm not so sure about that. I find it hard enough even splitting he and Keith Miller in terms of best bowling all-rounder of all-time, let alone putting him in the top 5.
Trying not to make the thread an ATG discussion, but I think plenty of people would have him as a top 5 cricketer. He's top 3, for me.
 

Zinzan

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Trying not to make the thread an ATG discussion, but I think plenty of people would have him as a top 5 cricketer. He's top 3, for me.
Who does he push out of Wisden's top 5 for a start before we get into comparing him to the likes of Miller (bowling AR) and Kallis (batting AR)? Top 3 is a huge call, so only The Don & Sobers ahead of him for you?

And presumably that makes him your no.1 all-time Asian cricketer.

You can quote & reply in the ATG thread if you like :p
 
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Prince EWS

Global Moderator
Who does he push out of Wisden's top 5 for a start before we get into comparing him to the likes of Miller (bowling AR) and Kallis (batting AR)? Top 3 is a huge call, so only The Don & Sobers ahead of him for you?

And presumably that makes him your no.1 all-time Asian cricketer.

You can quote & reply in the ATG thread if you like :p
I thought more or less all the regulars were aware of this by now but I haven't gone into it for a while so you may be surprised.. but I make Imran the best Test cricketer of all time. Number one.
 

Zinzan

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I thought more or less all the regulars were aware of this by now but I haven't gone into it for a while so you may be surprised.. but I make Imran the best Test cricketer of all time. Number one.
Nah, I was aware how much you rate Imran, although it does surprise me to learn he's your no.1 of all-time.

Incidentally, I don't take issue with anyone floating Imran in their top 5, I just meant that's it's not undisputed within cricket circles in the way it is for Bradman & Sobers. After those two it seems to come down to anyone of Viv, Imran, Sachin, Hobbs, Warne, Barnes, Marshall & even Grace in some cases.
 

hendrix

Hall of Fame Member
Who does he push out of Wisden's top 5 for a start before we get into comparing him to the likes of Miller (bowling AR) and Kallis (batting AR)? Top 3 is a huge call, so only The Don & Sobers ahead of him for you?

And presumably that makes him your no.1 all-time Asian cricketer.

You can quote & reply in the ATG thread if you like :p
A few reasons:
- He's in the argument as best fast bowler of all time. Certainly the best peak of any fast bowler ever, across a long period. I wouldn't name him number 1, but he's definitely up there and in the 80s he was better than Marshall and Hadlee.
- Similarly, his all-round peak right through the 80s was phenomenal; something like 40 with the bat and 18 with the ball. He was undoubtedly the best cricketer in the 80s amongst some fierce competition
- Throw in his batting and captaincy and the WC, and his very long career
- Intangibles such as his fostering of Pakistani fast bowlers and popularising of reverse swing
 

weldone

Hall of Fame Member
I'm so happy for Pakistani cricketers - Misbah, Yasir, Amir, Younis - these guys are heroes.
 

Zinzan

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A few reasons:
- He's in the argument as best fast bowler of all time. Certainly the best peak of any fast bowler ever, across a long period. I wouldn't name him number 1, but he's definitely up there and in the 80s he was better than Marshall and Hadlee.
- Similarly, his all-round peak right through the 80s was phenomenal; something like 40 with the bat and 18 with the ball. He was undoubtedly the best cricketer in the 80s amongst some fierce competition
- Throw in his batting and captaincy and the WC, and his very long career
- Intangibles such as his fostering of Pakistani fast bowlers and popularising of reverse swing
No problem with any of that, and you make a convincing case. I was however making the point he's not a categorical 'top 5' cricketer in the way those other two are. That's certainly the impression I've got from reading as many ATG teams and top 5 cricketer selections as I have over the years. Seems to me there's only two that make almost everyone's 5.

Would be genuinely interested if he would make a CW "top 5 cricketers of all time". Has that question ever been polled or voted on?
 

Xuhaib

International Coach
I'm so happy for Pakistani cricketers - Misbah, Yasir, Amir, Younis - these guys are heroes.
:laugh:One is a drug cheat the other is a fixer don' t mind Amir returning but he will always be tainted and I hope he is constantly reminded by cricketing community of his crimes.
 

Shady Slim

International Coach
this is a top article - is probably a little inflammatory for no reason to india but still worth the read Pakistan Are Better Than India - Dennis Does Cricket

Pakistan have just risen to the world’s number one Test playing nation.

They have done this all by themselves.

It is not a quirk in the system.

It is not like how India got there despite not beating anyone away from home except for the 8th ranked West Indies or the 7th ranked Sri Lankan team.

It is not as though they got lucky. It is not as though they have had an easy home draw.

They have had everything against them.

India won’t play them unless it is at a World Cup because apparently Adelaide is immune from terrorist attacks
Their captain was caught in a spot fixing sting
Justice Qayyum said he was too lenient on Wasim Akram in regards to match fixing
The PCB offices were raided by the tax office
Their players were banned from the IPL but their commentators were not
Hafeez was banned from bowling
Saeed Ajmal was banned from bowling
Mohammad Amir threatened to split the squad
Afridi did split the squad over and over
Yasir Shah failed a drug test
Shoaib Malik retired, returned, made 200 and then retired
Some pathetic humans shot up a Pakistani school during a New Zealand series
Ramiz Raja’s hair
However, the biggest issue is that they have not played a home Test since 2009.

Not one.

In that time they have played 24 test series. They have lost only six of those. Three were against Sri Lanka, with one each to Australia, England and South Africa.

They have also smashed all of those teams.

England couldn’t beat them at home despite having the carrot of playing for the world’s number one ranking. England choked.

Since not being able to play at home, Pakistan are a 75% chance of not losing.

Since 2009, they have played 18 test matches in the UAE, losing only three.

The stadiums in Dubai and Sharjah and buried in the middle of sand dunes and devoid of crowds. The UAE is not a home ground for Pakistan. It is a neutral venue. Please don’t pretend otherwise.

Pakistan don’t have the luxury of doctored pitches, of screaming fans or the ability to sleep in their own beds surrounded by family and friends.

Pakistan attempted to resurrect home cricket in 2015, when Zimbabwe toured for a couple of ODI’s. However, some fool blew themselves up outside a stadium ironically named after tyrant Colonel Gaddafi. Was it linked to the cricket? We don’t know. But it happened and the world doesn’t like bombs going off near sporting events. Unless of course it happens at a relatively small event like an Olympics in Atlanta. Then, according to Western values, we can quickly forget and move on.

You can’t move on when bombs go off near cricket stadiums in Pakistan.

Pakistan are Test cricket’s nomads.

When Pakistan last played at home, Instagram wasn’t yet invented. Younis Khan was in his 30’s and heading towards the back end of his career. Misbah was 35 and should have been thinking about retirement.

Pakistan rising to become number one is not just the biggest story of the week.

It is the biggest story of the decade.

Globally.

In all of sports.

They are more inspirational than The Mighty Ducks and the Karate Kid combined.

They are now the best in the world. Better than Australia. Better than England. Better than South Africa, New Zealand, Sri Lanka, Bangladesh and the West Indies.

Despite every natural advantage that their bigger neighbours have, Pakistan are better than India.

This is a fact.

Oh, what we would give for India to drop their false politically motivated pretenses and play Pakistan in a Test series. It wouldn’t matter if it was in London or the Emirates or Switzerland. But they won’t. India are scared of losing.

Pakistan aren’t scared of losing. They are scared of not playing. Of not feeding the national psyche.

Never change Pakistan. You are the best.

PAKISTAN ZINDABAD.
 

weldone

Hall of Fame Member
People in India and Pakistan would love to watch a India-Pakistan test series. The only reason that doesn't take place is because some morons have all the political power in both countries.

And yes the article is bad as a cricket article can be - but I find it interesting that instagram came after Pakistan played their last home test.
 
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