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Pace in the past
- Thread starter GuyFromLancs
- Start date
GuyFromLancs
State Vice-Captain
It's hard to imagine anyone (for bio-mechanical reasons) being much quicker than Thommo in is prime. The ball practically grazed the floor before he slung it.
He had the perfect sling-action.
Arrogant bastard though
He had the perfect sling-action.
Arrogant bastard though
Migara
International Coach
Pakistani's think Akthar was as quick as Thommo if not quicker. The pKAistani cricketers claim Mohammed Zahid was a yard quicker than Akthar too. Akthar simply had the most amazing action for a fast bowler, with unbelievable elasticity of his body. Zahis simply was pure power at the delivery stride.
watson
Banned
Jeff Thomson at his peak from 74-76 would simply blow Akthar/Zahid away for pace and aggression - I'm sure that Fletcher, Edrich, Denness, Rowe, Richards, and Lloyd would agree.
Also, Thomson's feat of hitting the side-screen on the half-volley at both the SCG and Perth is simply incredible, and I'm willing to bet that it will never be repeated by another fast bowler, ever.
Daemon
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Yeah, we don't know how fast the fastest guys in the past were, but to suggest anyone would 'blow away' someone who's sent down a couple of balls at a 100 miles per hour is questionable tstl.
Akhtar going all out is one of the most awesome sights I've seen in cricket (in all my years of scouring youtube
)
Akhtar going all out is one of the most awesome sights I've seen in cricket (in all my years of scouring youtube
)
OverratedSanity
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Akhtar really was a wonder when you think about it... I agree that I don't think anyone's ever bowled faster than him, and definitely not for so long. He bowled express throughout his career and didn't slow down much at all
Awesome bowler to watch, and when he turned it on, like in Colombo against Australia, simply unstoppable
smash84
The Tiger King
He'd only be unstoppable if you tried rolling him down a hill.
that would be true towards the end of his career for sure but even then he could crank it up into the mid 90s
watson
Banned
Yes, but the Aussie score in the video was 4/343 with Ponting not out. Not a good choice to demonstrate 'blow away'.Yeah, we don't know how fast the fastest guys in the past were, but to suggest anyone would 'blow away' someone who's sent down a couple of balls at a 100 miles per hour is questionable tstl.
Akhtar going all out is one of the most awesome sights I've seen in cricket (in all my years of scouring youtube
On the other hand - Thomo at his peak could knock over world class batsman and dominate an entire series, not just bowl fast.
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Agent Nationaux
International Coach
Akhtar averages better and has a better strike rate than Thompson in about the same number of matches. He is also one of the few bowlers who blew the Aus ATG top/middle order away through sheer pace.
As for speed, didn't SS speak to the guy who recorded Thomson's speed and it turned out that the speed was being measured from the hand (unlike what Thompson claimed - that it was measured from the other end and therefore that he was much quicker than recorded)? Someone to confirm this (SS)?
As for speed, didn't SS speak to the guy who recorded Thomson's speed and it turned out that the speed was being measured from the hand (unlike what Thompson claimed - that it was measured from the other end and therefore that he was much quicker than recorded)? Someone to confirm this (SS)?
Agent Nationaux
International Coach
Found it. So this hype about Thommo bowling 160-170 kph (mainly from his own mouth) is pure bull.So, Dr. Frank Pyke was good enough to get back to me, and according to him:
The speed was measured out of the bowler's hand.
His words, straight from the guy who did the measurement. That's that.
So to me, it seems that Thommo was as quick as anyone we have now pre-injury and possibly faster, if he was still bowling 148kph post-injury, as everyone agrees he slowed down after. However, it does put him more into the reasonable range, as well as the rest of the bowlers instead of having 10 bowlers who were all supposedly capable of bowling 150+ in the seventies. I have no idea how the 'we take average speed' myth got started though, as it seems to be a common perception.
Agent Nationaux
International Coach
Oops my mistake, not 160-170 but 180 kph.
'I didn't bowl your little outswingers' | Specials | Cricinfo Magazine | ESPN Cricinfo
'I didn't bowl your little outswingers' | Specials | Cricinfo Magazine | ESPN Cricinfo
wellAlbidarned
International Coach
I have little doubt that the speed of the average bowler has increased. The overall capability of athletes in every other sport has shown a gradual increase over history, so I'm willing to bet cricket is no different.
However as it is clear that the human body has a reasonably hard limit of around 160kph this also means the speed of the fastest bowlers relative to more typical bowlers has decreased. Batsmen become more accustomed to faster bowling on a regular basis and the outliers are less extreme, hence it seems like the fastest bowlers aren't as fast or scary to face. In the past the difference between regular bowlers and outlying fast-bowling "freaks" would've been much larger, hence all the superlative anecdotes.
However as it is clear that the human body has a reasonably hard limit of around 160kph this also means the speed of the fastest bowlers relative to more typical bowlers has decreased. Batsmen become more accustomed to faster bowling on a regular basis and the outliers are less extreme, hence it seems like the fastest bowlers aren't as fast or scary to face. In the past the difference between regular bowlers and outlying fast-bowling "freaks" would've been much larger, hence all the superlative anecdotes.
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Agent Nationaux
International Coach
And yeah in that article he claims he was measured from the batting end.
The arrogance is off-putting. Never heard Akhtar boast about his speed. In fact he has even claimed Zahid was quicker than him.
The arrogance is off-putting. Never heard Akhtar boast about his speed. In fact he has even claimed Zahid was quicker than him.
hendrix
Hall of Fame Member
cricket is different though. These guys have been professional for far longer than rugby players.
Some of the athletic development simply isn't applicable to cricket either. Ethiopians destroying marathon in a few minutes doesn't mean anything in the cricket world, and neither does juiced up sprinters or weightlifters setting world records (or baseball players, for that matter). American sport records can pretty much be written off since the 80s due to the prevalence of drugs, and then where else is this overwhelming improvement in human capabilities? Diet? Training? Sorry, but people have understood for a very long time that eating well and training hard is good for you.
As for sport science and technique coaching, I don't think it's that applicable to cricket that we would have seen massive overall improvement. Sure, mastering an ultra-efficient clean and jerk requires immense technical adjustment - but that's a one-off, all or nothing movement. Bowlers bowl long spells during which they gain "rhythm", through which they naturally adjust their actions towards maximal efficiency.
But I agree with the rest of your points. I doubt we've ever had anyone bowl much faster than 160kph. And yeah, Thompson's having a laugh.
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wellAlbidarned
International Coach
I don't see how fast bowling is any different to any other athletic pursuit. You're trying to hurl a projectile as fast as possible - by your logic, shot put and javelin records would be unchanged from a century ago. The gradual increase in average performance is due to the gradual accumulation of knowledge of what works and what doesn't work which has the greatest impact around the lower levels where performance is usually far from optimal. Just from watching scattered old cricketing videos it's loads of the bowler's actions are total rubbish. Biomechanics has been a huge influence in bowling throughout the past century whether specifically recognised or not.
Daemon
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That's irrelevant, you said he'd blow him away for pace.
hendrix
Hall of Fame Member
Again, shot put and javelin are one-off movements. You don't get a chance to establish rhythm. It's about concentration and nailing that technique on first go. Quite different to bowling.
But aside from that, even shot put and javelin haven't increased dramatically in the past 50 years. All of the shot put records are from the extreme doping 80s, and no amount of biomechanics in the past 30 years has been able to compete with that. Perhaps they've increased over 100 years, but that's probably due to the invention of a whole new technique in the 50s that allowed shot putters to throw much further.
Part of the reason most bowlers bowled slower in older times is not that they didn't have the strength, the training, or the diets to do it. It's that they didn't need to bowl quickly. The pitches were green, the bats worse, there were no sight screens, and there were fewer quality batsmen overall. A certain leg cutting medium pace bowler was extremely effective on pitches in those days, whereas were he to play today I suspect he'd be cannot fodder on un-watered pitches.
I don't believe that biomechanics is what has allowed modern bowlers to bowl fast. 100 years ago, play cricket games on flat decks with good batsmen and good batting technology, and I bet there'd be just as many extremely fast pace bowlers emerging, purely out of necessity.
Agent Nationaux
International Coach
How are shot put and javelin one-off movements? They require a run up which allows for build up and establish rhythm.