*Official* Pakistan in England 2010

[BoyBrumby]

****, I think I'm starting to look like Greig as he appears in that photo. I'm never leaving the house again!

The world thanks you for your efforts.

Decent effort today, didn't let the last wicket stand drag on and Trott and the skipper batted very sensibly chasing a ticklish little target. Cook's travails continue, but with Bell still broken I think he'll survive the summer even if he doesn't score another run. However, if he does fail I don't think he'll tour Oz.

 

[four_or_six]

The world thanks you for your efforts.

Decent effort today, didn't let the last wicket stand drag on and Trott and the skipper batted very sensibly chasing a ticklish little target. Cook's travails continue, but with Bell still broken I think he'll survive the summer even if he doesn't score another run. However, if he does fail I don't think he'll tour Oz.

Nah, Cook will go to Australia. At least, I hope he does. He did well in South Africa last winter iirc, and I think he's one they're looking to for the future. I'd back him to do reasonably well in Australia even if he doesn't set the series alight. Also, in terms of the openers, Pakistan's bowling in England is tougher than Australia's in Australia.

 

[Prince EWS]

Cook will definitely be going to Australia. There's an outside chance he won't be in the eleven but he'll be in the squad.

 

[social]

One more win, then a draw, and we officially prove what everyone already knows: England are better than Australia.

Oz need to do the same in football to rise above Eng in the rankings

Pissed off that it's taken us so long to get above those hacks tbh

 

[BoyBrumby]

Nah, Cook will go to Australia. At least, I hope he does. He did well in South Africa last winter iirc, and I think he's one they're looking to for the future. I'd back him to do reasonably well in Australia even if he doesn't set the series alight. Also, in terms of the openers, Pakistan's bowling in England is tougher than Australia's in Australia.

Cook will definitely be going to Australia. There's an outside chance he won't be in the eleven but he'll be in the squad.

Nah, disagree. If he fails at The Oval & Lords I think his credit will be used up. It's not like he has a good, or even passable record v Oz. Struass, Colly and Bell have all been dropped before and came back better players for it.

 

[four_or_six]

Nah, disagree. If he fails at The Oval & Lords I think his credit will be used up. It's not like he has a good, or even passable record v Oz. Struass, Colly and Bell have all been dropped before and came back better players for it.

Yeah, but they've not been dropped right before an Ashes with a debutant (well, okay, one test vs Bangladesh) coming in instead.

Assuming we're talking bringing Carberry in here, rather than Trott opening and retaining Morgan and Bell.

 

[BoyBrumby]

Yeah, but they've not been dropped right before an Ashes with a debutant (well, okay, one test vs Bangladesh) coming in instead.

Assuming we're talking bringing Carberry in here, rather than Trott opening and retaining Morgan and Bell.

Trott would be opening with Bell @ #3 in my hypothetical. Not sure who I'd take as the extra batsman, but Carberry has as good a chance as any, I suppose. Lyth might be another shout; better part of decade younger than the Hants man.

 

[Matt79]

I don't follow English domestic cricket closely enough to know anything about the respective merits of Carberry and Lyth, but I don't think a tour of a Australia is the best place to debut a young batsman, if you have the option of a similarly in form experienced pro who knows their game inside out and has experience to fall back on. It can, and has, been a cruel tour to 'next big things' in the past.

 

[Jarquis]

It's a bloody cruel tour to blokes who don't know where their offstump is and can't score runs for love nor money. Carberry could go there and average 25 for all I care, it'd be better than what Cook's currently serving up.
Though I think people are being a bit premature. He's looking horrid but he's still averaging more than Strauss this year.

 

[BoyBrumby]

I don't follow English domestic cricket closely enough to know anything about the respective merits of Carberry and Lyth, but I don't think a tour of a Australia is the best place to debut a young batsman, if you have the option of a similarly in form experienced pro who knows their game inside out and has experience to fall back on. It can, and has, been a cruel tour to 'next big things' in the past.

Loins tour running parallel to the main event, tbh, so Cook will be in Oz one way or the other.

However not wanting to ruining a young bloke seems a pretty crappy reason for not ejecting a bloke who's failed constantly over a longish period. Trott came in to debut in a 5th Ashes test for a failing Bopara and that was obviously a decent call, as has since been proved.

 

[four_or_six]

Cook hasn't failed for that long a period though.

 

[Scaly piscine]

Cook hasn't failed for that long a period though.

Not generally, but that's because he's filled his boots against rubbish attacks on flat pitches.

 

[BoyBrumby]

Cook hasn't failed for that long a period though.

Hate to dust off the hoary old "Bangladesh aren't test quality" argument, but am going to rehash it here. Don't think many would argue Pakistan's attack isn't several light years ahead of Bangladesh's and Cook has really struggled against the better bowlers.

If he fails again in the next two tests it'd be 8 consecutive failures regardless, which I think is a big enough sample, especially with a player of Bell's quality to come back in.

 

[Jarquis]

Trott is not an opener in FC cricket though.
Not to mention the fact bell is dog rank at 3.

 

[four_or_six]

Hate to dust off the hoary old "Bangladesh aren't test quality" argument, but am going to rehash it here. Don't think many would argue Pakistan's attack isn't several light years ahead of Bangladesh's and Cook has really struggled against the better bowlers.

If he fails again in the next two tests it'd be 8 consecutive failures regardless, which I think is a big enough sample, especially with a player of Bell's quality to come back in.

Yeah, but you can only get the runs against the teams you play against. And so far this year Cook > KP, and Bell would slot better into KP's position than Cook's.

Anyway, I'm confident he'll score runs before the series is out.

 

[BoyBrumby]

Trott is not an opener in FC cricket though.
Not to mention the fact bell is dog rank at 3.

Dare say Bell averages more at three than Cook does v Oz tho, regardless; has definitely improved of late too. & Think Trott has the game for an opener, very well organised (anally so, in fact) batsman.

 

[Jarquis]

Hmm, Cook averages 39.14 in the last two years excluding Bangladesh. 3 tons in 21 matches. That's acceptable just.

In the last 12 months without Bangladesh he averages 26.69 with just one century in 7 matches. That's not up to scratch.

 

[BoyBrumby]

Dare say Bell averages more at three than Cook does v Oz tho, regardless; has definitely improved of late too. & Think Trott has the game for an opener, very well organised (anally so, in fact) batsman.

Sad enough to check: Bell @ #3 - 1006 runs @ 31.44
Cook v Oz - 498 @ 26.21

 

[stumpski]

If Trott were to be manufactured into a Test opener (as the not dissimilar Tavare was a few years ago), might there be a case for moving Collingwood up to number 3? I'm pretty sure he batted there for Durham earlier in his career, and while he might only get his usual 40 off 120 balls it'd see off the shine and give us a bit of ballast at the top. He's one batsman who can be guaranteed not to throw his wicket away. I know people always say Pietersen should bat at three, that's where your best batsman should bat, but the idea of KP coming in at none for one in Australia doesn't bear thinking about, whereas I think Colly would be up for the scrap.

 

[Matt79]

I don't follow English domestic cricket closely enough to know anything about the respective merits of Carberry and Lyth, but I don't think a tour of a Australia is the best place to debut a young batsman, if you have the option of a similarly in form experienced pro who knows their game inside out and has experience to fall back on. It can, and has, been a cruel tour to 'next big things' in the past.

It's a bloody cruel tour to blokes who don't know where their offstump is and can't score runs for love nor money. Carberry could go there and average 25 for all I care, it'd be better than what Cook's currently serving up.
Though I think people are being a bit premature. He's looking horrid but he's still averaging more than Strauss this year.

Loins tour running parallel to the main event, tbh, so Cook will be in Oz one way or the other.

However not wanting to ruining a young bloke seems a pretty crappy reason for not ejecting a bloke who's failed constantly over a longish period. Trott came in to debut in a 5th Ashes test for a failing Bopara and that was obviously a decent call, as has since been proved.

Now I'm confused. I wasn't saying don't dump Cook, I was saying if you're dumping Cook, and have the choice between Carberry and Lyth, and those latter two are in similar form, but one has ten years of FC experience and the other doesn't, go for the more experienced candidate rather than the young tyro. Have I failed to grasp that Lyth and Cook are the same person or something?