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***Official*** New Zealand tour of Zimbabwe and South Africa 2016

hendrix

Hall of Fame Member
He wouldn't be the first "his theoretical skill-set is perfect!" player picked in recent years, those ones who burn brightly as they enter the cricket world's atmosphere, only to be humbled to roughly the size of a pea once they hit the dirt with a thud. Ironic, seeing Hesson's supposedly all about the earning of rights.

Fair to say Anderson and Neesham have never earnt the right with bullying and eye-catching domestic seasons at any point either though, tbh. That means it's the cunning and dirty veteran Andrew Ellis who should be playing, if Hesson ever changed tack and started selecting on the genuine earning of rights.
Anderson had done way more than Santner had IIRC, including dominating in some games for NZA, I believe.

Santner's batting ceiling is James Franklin, unfortunately.
 

Howsie

International Captain
26th 5fer too. Some of his statistics are getting absurd.

Really disappointed in NZ yet again
Thought they'd out up a better show than they did vs Australia, and it's probably been better but still not good enough. Need to lift their game big time now. In a year, they've gone from being on the verge of being a potentially excellent team to a thoroughly mediocre one (like several other teams today tbf).
Contrary to what Firdose Moonda believed and had written before the series, this New Zealand team is far from settled and a lot different to the one from even the middle of last year. Southee has been extremely poor for a good 18 months, Boult was below average after coming back from his stress fracture (he has looked back to his old self this tour tbf). McCullum has retired, Guptill is a walking wicket, Nicholls is just starting out, Anderson and Neesham are both out through injury, creating a balance issue. Both Santner and Bracewell are having to play to combat this, Santner isn't close to being a test standard bowler, Bracewell the same.

This team isn't anywhere near as good as the one from late 2013 till the middle of 2015.
 

hendrix

Hall of Fame Member
What did we do differently that made 2013-2015 good that we're not doing now?

One extra test standard batsman.

The bowling is more of a problem though.
 

Howsie

International Captain
Anderson had done way more than Santner had IIRC, including dominating in some games for NZA, I believe.

Santner's batting ceiling is James Franklin, unfortunately.
Oh please.

First of all, Anderson had one first class 100 when he made his test debut, one less than Santner currently has. He might've averaged 2-3 more runs but he sure as heck hadn't done 'more'. Santner probably has a better record than Anderson when it comes to NZ A too. I can't remember Anderson scoring any 100's for NZ A (he had a decent Emerging players tournament back in 2008 but zero 100's). Santner scored good runs for NZ A last year if you remember, outperformed CW golden boy Will Young.

As for the Franklin comment, nice trolling.
 

Howsie

International Captain
What did we do differently that made 2013-2015 good that we're not doing now?

One extra test standard batsman.

The bowling is more of a problem though.
Bowling, pretty much. Southee and Boult were outstanding (Southee especially) from the middle of 2012 till the end of 2014. World class bowlers win you test matches.
 

hendrix

Hall of Fame Member
Even though Southee came good in that 3rd innings, and even though he's likely to be our best bowler in India, we could make a case to drop him.
 

hendrix

Hall of Fame Member
Bowling, pretty much. Southee and Boult were outstanding (Southee especially) from the middle of 2012 till the end of 2014. World class bowlers win you test matches.
So why are they not there now?

What are the players, coaches, the management etc doing differently? Ok Boult was injured...that's a crap excuse IMO, if you're fit enough to play you're fit enough to perform.

There has to be a consequence for this, but there also has to be a way of getting it right.
 

Athlai

Not Terrible
So why are they not there now?

What are the players, coaches, the management etc doing differently? Ok Boult was injured...that's a crap excuse IMO, if you're fit enough to play you're fit enough to perform.

There has to be a consequence for this, but there also has to be a way of getting it right.
Test class, which is better than any other NZ bowlers. :)
 

Mike5181

International Captain
Let's just pray one or two out of Matt Henry, Ed Nuttall, Adam Milne, or Lachie Ferguson progress enough to be test standard first. Those are the guys we'll really need to see performing well if we ever want to see the end of Southee any time soon.
 

Howsie

International Captain
So why are they not there now?

What are the players, coaches, the management etc doing differently? Ok Boult was injured...that's a crap excuse IMO, if you're fit enough to play you're fit enough to perform.

There has to be a consequence for this, but there also has to be a way of getting it right.
Just because Boult was back playing doesn't mean he's 100 percent mate. People come back from serious injuries and sure they might physically be 100 percent, or close enough anyway. That doesn't mean they'll be back performing at their best right away though, confidence plays a big part and that might take anywhere from 3-12 to 18 months to get back. If you're not 100 percent confident in your body performance is always going to suffer. I mean do you really believe Boult just decided to bowl 10k's slower last summer just because?

As for Southee I'd say a big part in his fall is his lack of drive. Sadly that boy is happy enough just being good enough to play for New Zealand, he knows he's good enough to get away with just being decent.
 

Bahnz

Hall of Fame Member
Yeah, I've started wondering about that too. There's something a little suspect about how little progress Southee made while he was hovering on fringes during 2008-2011, and how much he improved following his 2012 axing.
 

Kippax

Cricketer Of The Year
Santner scored good runs for NZ A last year if you remember, outperformed CW golden boy Will Young.
Conflating white ball scores into a Test team discussion, you are Howsie. We'd be locking in Guptill for Tests and looking hard at Worker, if the criteria was how dominantly you can give some hammer to a touring Sri Lanka A white ball attack.
 

Hurricane

Hall of Fame Member
What a relief we scored 195

I am not giving out kudos to Nicholls despite saving our bacon. I still think his footwork is weak.

I guess if you forced me into complimenting him then I would say he left well outside off stump and had good composure. My boy Popli would have tonned up however :ph34r:

As for this test just flush and move on we had terrible luck throughout it including 54 plays and misses in the sa first inning.

I think the strangest positive I will take out of this is Latham's second inning dismissal. He possibly over corrected from the first inning. But that tells me he thinks about his game even if he over thought it in this case.

I don't know why people are beating up on guptil for his 2nd inning dismissal. I thought the ball he got was h4x and unplayable. I guess the only negative you can throw at him is that many other batsman would have been beaten but wouldn't have followed the ball with their bat. But I think that is asking guptil to be as good as Alistair cook or one of the premier opening batsman around the world. I would still retain him and I note he took a catch.

He outscored Ross in the end didn't he ( ironic joke)

Looking forward to the next series and being an eternal optimist I will give us a chance of winning that.
 
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Hurricane

Hall of Fame Member
Other random comments

1 if rossco's shooter had truly shot along the ground it would have been a no ball for bouncing more than twice. This devilish delivery kept low but not too low.

2 same team plus Sodhi for bracewell in India

3 I would preservers with Santner
But I believe he needs to be yelled at a bit by a griz Wyllie style coach. He is not playing with enough grit or determination and there is a cure for that.
 

hendrix

Hall of Fame Member
Let's just pray one or two out of Matt Henry, Ed Nuttall, Adam Milne, or Lachie Ferguson progress enough to be test standard first. Those are the guys we'll really need to see performing well if we ever want to see the end of Southee any time soon.
You forgot Jacob Duffy
 

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