flibbertyjibber
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What he said was true until the immigrant comment. What a plank, should never have been published.
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*Official* Fifth Test at The Oval
- Thread starter GIMH
- Start date
No it really wasn't thats a complete myth. England might be the 2nd best ODI side in the world in England, but in the sub-continent/Windies we'd be behind India/Pakistan/Windies/Sri Lanka easily. Slow pitches where you need people who can clear the fence we would be totally unstuck. We luckily barely play any ODI cricket away from home so we don't get shown up.
grecian
Cricket Web: All-Time Legend
I'm not sure what your saying is a myth, the fact we win more matches with Trott and Cook in our side than we did without?
I think most of Pakistans batting has a poorer strike-rate than our lot, so not really sure what your saying there. Didn't we crush them the last time we played them away?
Cabinet did a very detailed post about the weaknesses of most of these sides anyway.
Cabinet96
Global Moderator
Nah, it's not, but he also had the benefit of a guy averaging 45 above him and a guy averaging 50 below him. That was the time we could afford a basher at the top of the order who would come off one in every three. Besides Mustard and Prior didn't score as quickly as CK did (lower averages too) and I also thought Davies was harshly treated. Our top order starts were fine with Steve.
Yeah, it's lucky we don't play more in NZ, South Africa, the UAE and the West Indies. Otherwise our record would be much worse given how badly we were mauled last time we played ODI's in those places...
It's actually amazing how the odd bad series in India gives the impression that England are terrible at ODI's everywhere outside of England. It's not just in England and in India you know, there are other countries too.
Also, you talk about Pakistan and the Windies, but they just played an ODI series which is being investigated by the ICC because they were concerned at how slowly a lot of the guys were scoring. Having a whole lineup of block and slog merchants doesn't work, which is why Pakistan and the Windies were rubbish in the Champions Trophy.
grecian
Cricket Web: All-Time Legend
Yep, we're a bit obsessed with getting thrashed in India, should remember before Trott we were thrashed 5-0 there as well.
I actually agree about Davies, but in the end, we've got options up there now who are all scoring runs, at a decent rate, so time to move on.
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Cabinet96
Global Moderator
FWIW, these are overall strike rates for each of the top 10 ODI sides this year. The much maligned England are top, with the much vaunted West Indies and Pakistan only outscoring Zimbabwe.
It's amazing how people let their perceptions tell them otherwise because of stereotypes and a lack of sixes.
It's amazing how people let their perceptions tell them otherwise because of stereotypes and a lack of sixes.
Furball
Evil Scotsman
30 is a terrible average when you're striking at 100.
flibbertyjibber
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Why are we discussing Bedwetter in the thread for the last test?
grecian
Cricket Web: All-Time Legend
Dunno.
Cabinet96
Global Moderator
Meh. I think you're expectations are too high because of a few modern ODI greats who manage to average 50 and still strike at above 90 (Kohli, de Villiers, Dhoni, Hussey)
Sanath Jayasuriya basically did the same role for Sri Lanka and averaged 32 striking at 92. You could argue it wasn't as high scoring an era or whatever, but one is argued as an ODI ATG while the other is terrible and got dropped after 15 games in the early stage of his career.
Agains, I stress that I don't actually think CK should currently be playing ODI cricket. I just think he was a bit harshly treated, especially when a guy like Bell had done much worse in his many more chances beforehand. Bell has won me over since though.
Cabinet96
Global Moderator
Carberry is pushing for test selection through limited overs form so we started discussing whether he should play ODI's. I think
Besides, the test team pretty much picks itself, and the ODI leg is coming. Should probably start up the ODI thread and move these posts into it though.
Yeah there is just so much more to talk about when it comes to the ODI side.
I agree with pretty much everything you have said about the England top order but Carberry has been scoring runs at a very high strike rate in list A cricket in the last couple of years and doing it with a very high average. I am not sure if he would be able to translate it to international level but with the amount of ODI games played I think we should have a look at how he goes before the World Cup. If he does well then you have a very tricky decision to make about who opens with Cook. Trott after his Champions Trophy performances is a certainty at 3.
I agree with pretty much everything you have said about the England top order but Carberry has been scoring runs at a very high strike rate in list A cricket in the last couple of years and doing it with a very high average. I am not sure if he would be able to translate it to international level but with the amount of ODI games played I think we should have a look at how he goes before the World Cup. If he does well then you have a very tricky decision to make about who opens with Cook. Trott after his Champions Trophy performances is a certainty at 3.
MW1304
Cricketer Of The Year
You won't be able to do that until you inevitably become a mod.Carberry is pushing for test selection through limited overs form so we started discussing whether he should play ODI's. I think
Besides, the test team pretty much picks itself, and the ODI leg is coming. Should probably start up the ODI thread and move these posts into it though.
Cabinet96
Global Moderator
There's still KP to deal with of course though. I have a feeling they're going to try and avoid some really tricky calls through resting all of KP, Trott and Cook at stages. Carberry will probably make the squad, but they'd probably have to rest Cook and KP, or Cook and Trott for him to get a game.
Personally, I'm not even that bothered about KP in ODI's anymore. Didn't shed a tear when he retired from the format last year and was only slightly disappointed when he was ruled out of the Champions Trophy. If I was a selector I'd probably give him the rest of the season off (rest the knee and calf) and give Carberry a chance by resting one of the top order for a few matches.
flibbertyjibber
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As should Anderson and Swann.
