*Official* English Football Season 2022/23

[Furball]

Who are your equivalent of Modric and Kroos to make him look good?

Sticking a fiver on him being booked every week looks like free money IMO.

 

[Uppercut]

We need someone for that too. But the fact that we’re desperately lacking in midfield progression doesn’t mean we’re not also desperately lacking in midfield defensive work.

I don’t think he’s overrated or anything. He’s phenomenal at ball winning and average to bad at everything else. I feel like everybody knows what he is, it’s pretty obvious.

£60m for a technically limited 30 year old DM from la liga is just absolutely horrendous business, about three times what we should be paying. He’s so clunky too, he’ll become an embarrassing meme even if he’s actually not that bad, like Fellaini.

 

[dontcloseyoureyes]

Casemiro should've been sent off in every game I've ever watched him play. Will be interesting to watch.

Don't think it's that bad a signing, but, like you say, it needs to be in conjunction with two other very good midfielders which just isn't going to happen.

 

[Uppercut]

I’m not too worried about that, English referees are the best in the world at bottling obvious red cards. If it’s inside the first 30 minutes you need to break the leg of a striker clean through on goal to even get a yellow.

 

[GIMH]

I’m not too worried about that, English referees are the best in the world at bottling obvious red cards. If it’s inside the first 30 minutes you need to break the leg of a striker clean through on goal to even get a yellow.

Heh, so true. Exaggerated even more in the conference by their sliding scale. Shooting someone in the head in the first 15 is a talking to, heavy breathing in the direction of an opponent a straight red late in the game.

 

[Niall]

We need someone for that too. But the fact that we’re desperately lacking in midfield progression doesn’t mean we’re not also desperately lacking in midfield defensive work.

I don’t think he’s overrated or anything. He’s phenomenal at ball winning and average to bad at everything else. I feel like everybody knows what he is, it’s pretty obvious.

£60m for a technically limited 30 year old DM from la liga is just absolutely horrendous business, about three times what we should be paying. He’s so clunky too, he’ll become an embarrassing meme even if he’s actually not that bad, like Fellaini.

They desperately need a defensive cm and to be fair not many better. It does feel vey rushed though, surely this could have been done earlier in Summer? Some are saying he the back up to De Jong ...erm slightly different players .

Long term financially who knows, he has not had many injuries which is a positive, but it's a very meaty long term contract.

To be honest a little more concerned about the obsession with Antony, promising player but running riot in that league, so what? The sums been quoted their seem demented.

Need another midfielder, right back and ideally McTominay and Dalot in jail and then have a chance of pipping Newcastle to sixth.

 

[Himannv]

Amazing. Great player. Two footed. Rapid. Excellent technique. Two eyes for vision. Can play as a double pivot on his own. Shoots lasers out of his arse. Transforms into a car at will. Bargain.

 

[Uppercut]

Antony at least vaguely resembles the profile of a signing Liverpool or City would make. Whether he’s up to it I don’t know, I’ve barely watched him, but the idea is in the right ball park.

60m for 30yo Casemiro is a very 2010s AC Milan or 2020s Barcelona signing.

 

[Niall]

Antony at least vaguely resembles the profile of a signing Liverpool or City would make. Whether he’s up to it I don’t know, I’ve barely watched him, but the idea is in the right ball park.

60m for 30yo Casemiro is a very 2010s AC Milan or 2020s Barcelona signing.

To be fair if they get a few years out of him like Chelsea did Makélélé did who signed at a similar age then maybe it won't be so bad.

Would love to be a fly on the wall when Varane, Casemiro and Ronaldo go to dinner and discuss the fact that Harry Maguire is now their captain.

Totally forgot a keeper who isn't so error prone and isn't going to lose the plot when the ball is at his feet might also be an idea as well.

 

[OverratedSanity]

Free and casemiro have had a good partnership in the national team right? Might end up working.

 

[Himannv]

60m for 30yo Casemiro is a very 2010s AC Milan or 2020s Barcelona signing.

Bit of a steep price and the length of the contract doesn't offer as much value, but he is a player at his peak judging by his performances last season. He's younger than the likes of de Bruyne, Kante, Gundogan, Thiago, Henderson, etc. and the same age as Jorginho. I mean, if those guys can still offer something to their teams, Casemiro certainly can as well.

As mentioned by OS above, Casemiro and Fred do quite well for Brazil because it allows Fred to be more box-to-box without being tied down to doing something he's not good at doing anyway.

The bigger issue to me is that he'd probably have been perfect for a Rangnick midfield so it's too bad Ten Hag is in charge right now instead.

 

[andruid]

Amazing. Great player. Two footed. Rapid. Excellent technique. Two eyes for vision. Can play as a double pivot on his own. Shoots lasers out of his arse. Transforms into a car at will. Bargain.

To.

Bit of a steep price and the length of the contract doesn't offer as much value, but he is a player at his peak judging by his performances last season. He's younger than the likes of de Bruyne, Kante, Gundogan, Thiago, Henderson, etc. and the same age as Jorginho. I mean, if those guys can still offer something to their teams, Casemiro certainly can as well.

As mentioned by OS above, Casemiro and Fred do quite well for Brazil because it allows Fred to be more box-to-box without being tied down to doing something he's not good at doing anyway.

The bigger issue to me is that he'd probably have been perfect for a Rangnick midfield so it's too bad Ten Hag is in charge right now instead.

I would like to know if there is really so much of a difference between the Ajax-Barca-Bielsa school of high pressing football, and the Gegenpress-Red Bull approach.

Football admin seem to think that they are commentary from the way Leeds hired a Ragnick disciple to take over from Girls a, and Manure probably figured that stylistic similarity was important in bringing Ten Haag to replace Ragnick.

 

[Himannv]

To.


I would like to know if there is really so much of a difference between the Ajax-Barca-Bielsa school of high pressing football, and the Gegenpress-Red Bull approach.

Football admin seem to think that they are commentary from the way Leeds hired a Ragnick disciple to take over from Girls a, and Manure probably figured that stylistic similarity was important in bringing Ten Haag to replace Ragnick.

There is a difference.

Gang pressing is something that’s been around for ages going back to the Kiev team of the 70s probably (and perhaps some earlier iterations as well), while the Cruyff teams of the 70s are probably the blueprint that kicked off the possession-based total-football approach (although you could argue the Hungary team of the 50s and a few others did it before them).

Ultimately they both involve getting the ball back from the opposition or keeping it from them, but a high gang press German team is at its peak when it wins the ball higher up the pitch and goes with the concept that the team that has just lost the ball is at its weakest state defensively, with players likely out of position. So there is an emphasis on attacking quickly before the opposition recovers its shape.

The total football style of play is inherently different and has emphasis on breaking down opposition defenses. This is done firstly by players interchanging positions, while maintaining a general shape in attack - so this requires players to have very good technical skills on the ball so you'd typically see defenders who can play in midfield, or wingers who play as strikers, etc. The modern variant involves everyone being comfortable on the ball to also beat a press and use the skills of players to get ahead of the press where they'll potentially find spaces to exploit.

It's interesting that you mention Bielsa because him and Marsch kind of have different approaches. While they both involve pressing there is a difference in the way they press as well. Bielsa's pressing style is focused on man marking and being a step or two ahead of the game so it involves more sudden acceleration from his players and they'd have to change direction a lot to stay ahead of the opposition. Marsch has his team working just as hard as Bielsa, but with him it is less about marking and some emphasis placed on positioning and shape, particularly in the middle of the park. So if a player they are trying to press moves out of range, someone else takes over and the player doing the pressing reverts to position.

When you dive more into it, pressing itself is different and different teams have different goals. With RBL, their press involves pushing the ball out to opposition fullbacks and immediately closing the passing lines and attacking the fullback with some intensity. So their goal is to win the ball off the fullback and immediately cut in and you'd often be running into space with only a CB ahead of you. Simeone has his deep press where they concede the flanks to the opposition and win the ball deeper and centrally. Bielsa goes with his crazy man-marking approach. Marsch has his gang press with positioning fixed. Etc. etc.

Moving on to Ten Hag, he's in the new school where you combine the approaches of pressing and positioning play so that you attack and defend in different ways to adhere to different situations. For example, his Ajax team could build out from the back and play a more patient tiki-taka style at times, but they could also go more direct with quicker transitions if there were spaces to exploit. Also they could press high, but also hold shape depending on the situation. The problem he's facing right now though is that his style takes time in terms of players understanding what to do depending on match situations and also players having the right skills. His philosophy is to make use of the skills that players already have, but that's difficult with this current United side since they are a mishmash of players with different skillsets to fit a multitude of philosophies and who have played under a variety of different tactics. At Ajax, they had players who are groomed from academy level to play in a certain way, and the style of play of the players they sign normally fit into comparable tactics and approaches. He doesn't have this luxury at United and the pressure is high as well to get immediate results. It's a tough job in my view but he can do it if he gets time with some acceptance of failure and if he gets the right players in.

 

[grecian]

Still can't get over this,

Exeter City Football Club on Instagram: "🤔 One more angle? Go on then 🤩 @jamalblackman #ECFC #OneGrecianGoal"

2,357 likes, 30 comments - officialecfc on August 17, 2022: "🤔 One more angle? Go on then 🤩 @jamalblackman #ECFC #OneGrecianGoal".

www.instagram.com

Great but never do it again please, but taking the piss out of Wycombe is allowed.

 

[Uppercut]

Bit of a steep price and the length of the contract doesn't offer as much value, but he is a player at his peak judging by his performances last season. He's younger than the likes of de Bruyne, Kante, Gundogan, Thiago, Henderson, etc. and the same age as Jorginho. I mean, if those guys can still offer something to their teams, Casemiro certainly can as well.

As mentioned by OS above, Casemiro and Fred do quite well for Brazil because it allows Fred to be more box-to-box without being tied down to doing something he's not good at doing anyway.

The bigger issue to me is that he'd probably have been perfect for a Rangnick midfield so it's too bad Ten Hag is in charge right now instead.

I feel like you’re focusing a lot on guessing what his immediate impact on the pitch will be and missing the bigger picture. From a squad building perspective betting 60-70m on Casemiro’s years aged 30, 31, 32, and 33 with an option for 34 is absolute madness. Just an orders of magnitude mis-evaluation of his worth. What are the precedents? Pjanic to Barcelona and Ronaldo to Juventus are the only 30+ transfers in history above 30m or so, and within a year they were both struggling to give them away while the club melted down.

Liverpool got Thiago, a much better and more technical player, at 29 for 30m. I’m not even sure if that’s been an unqualified success? But it’s about where the market is. The last time they signed a 30+ player was Klavan for 5m in 2016. For City it was Sagna on a free in 2014. Why don’t they do it? Because at 30+ players start to decline very suddenly and unpredictably, and often by the time they’ve adjusted to a new role (and sometimes even a new league) they’ve already started to go. Arsenal immediately regretted not letting Aubameyang walk for nothing at that age, and he was a better player than Casemiro. Schweinsteiger at 30 cost us 9m and was a complete disaster.

15-20m would be about the right price. I’d still absolutely hate it because it’s a win-now signing when we need to be rebuilding the team from the ground up. But I wouldn’t feel like we’d overpaid. 60m-70m, holy god. It’s probably the most obviously clueless signing we’ve ever made.

 

[Boy_Blunder]

This is purely about the club getting in players quickly because they're either worried about Sir Jim's desire to buy the club or the financial consequences of missing out on CL football two years in a row (with Addidas' reduced payments and revenue etc.). Or both of course.

I expect to see an overpriced Anthony in the next few days too.

I find it really hard to get excited about any of this because all it does is protect the Glazers' interests long term

 

[Uppercut]

They’re badly misjudging how close we are to being a top four side. Arsenal, Spurs and Chelsea are in such good shape this season.

 

[Boy_Blunder]

Yeah I'd be very surprised if we were even close to top 4. This playing squad has no character. Any new signings won't be able to integrate into this team for weeks. There are games twice a week, which means limited training which means new signings won't be able to get used to the tactics or team mates.

I think this Autumn is going to be a painful one.

 

[Himannv]

I feel like you’re focusing a lot on guessing what his immediate impact on the pitch will be and missing the bigger picture. From a squad building perspective betting 60-70m on Casemiro’s years aged 30, 31, 32, and 33 with an option for 34 is absolute madness. Just an orders of magnitude mis-evaluation of his worth. What are the precedents? Pjanic to Barcelona and Ronaldo to Juventus are the only 30+ transfers in history above 30m or so, and within a year they were both struggling to give them away while the club melted down.

Liverpool got Thiago, a much better and more technical player, at 29 for 30m. I’m not even sure if that’s been an unqualified success? But it’s about where the market is. The last time they signed a 30+ player was Klavan for 5m in 2016. For City it was Sagna on a free in 2014. Why don’t they do it? Because at 30+ players start to decline very suddenly and unpredictably, and often by the time they’ve adjusted to a new role (and sometimes even a new league) they’ve already started to go. Arsenal immediately regretted not letting Aubameyang walk for nothing at that age, and he was a better player than Casemiro. Schweinsteiger at 30 cost us 9m and was a complete disaster.

15-20m would be about the right price. I’d still absolutely hate it because it’s a win-now signing when we need to be rebuilding the team from the ground up. But I wouldn’t feel like we’d overpaid. 60m-70m, holy god. It’s probably the most obviously clueless signing we’ve ever made.

I doubt United will be able to sign any established player for 15-20m in the current market - that's just not happening and certainly won't happen with the likes of Casemiro. Even ones with potential are going for 30-50m at least and Anthony's price will be double that or more if we get him.

I do agree that Casemiro is a short term signing and the contract length makes no sense, but he'll definitely help steady a ship that's already quite rocky. The bigger problem to me is that he doesn't quite fit Ten Hag's ideal philosophy.

 

[Niall]

Bit of a steep price and the length of the contract doesn't offer as much value, but he is a player at his peak judging by his performances last season. He's younger than the likes of de Bruyne, Kante, Gundogan, Thiago, Henderson, etc. and the same age as Jorginho. I mean, if those guys can still offer something to their teams, Casemiro certainly can as well.

To be fair most of those guys signed well before 30 and have well and truly justified the prices paid for them.

De Bruyne for example could drop 2/10 performances for the rest of his time at City and he would still be remembered as an ATG signing.

I see both sides, he is clearly a massive upgrade but United have had issues with players wrong wide of 30 costing them a bomb on wages deteriorating very quickly and not been worth the hassle. Time will tell,,,if they get 3 good seasons from him all good.

On Antony, those transfer numbers sound insane . Its a massive step up from the dutch league to the premier league.