***Official: Countdown to the 2017-2018 Ashes***

[stephen]

Errrrr, I've already said that you have every right to be excited........and I would be to.

The point is you are rating these young bowlers on potential and what they might end up doing and talk right now of the 3 of them being ATG is just ****ing ridiculous. Especially Cummins who has managed 3 tests over the course of nearly 6 years isn't it?

Edit:

I'm going to stop now as the superstitious **** in me is believing that I'm going to be responsible for PC doing a Mitch Johnson 2013/14 on us..........and even if does ftr it wont make anything I've said wrong.

I'm basing my view on what Cummins did in India and what Pattinson has done both in tests here and recently in our domestic comp. To say that they both are potential ATG players is not rating them too highly.

Tremain was bowling well with Pattinson at AB Oval and took wickets but it was clear he was a class below Pattinson. With fast bowlers it's a lot easier to pick potential and talent than it is with batsmen.

Anyway we've been having this discussion about Cummins and Pattinson since 2011. It's time they went out there and actually produced the goods they're capable of.

If Haze keeps his form at this level for another few years he'll go down as an ATG. Ditto Starc (Haze is closer than Starc atm though).

 

[stephen]

And I saw Stuart Broad demolish Australias entire order at Trent Bridge taking 8/15............if he bowls like that then you are ****ed.

Edit:

No one here is saying any of your bowlers are not or will not be a handful. Why do you think I'm trying to talk them down?

He bowled well in that spell, had a bit of assistance and a bit of luck too. If any side gets on the wrong end of a spell like that they'll lose a test.

But your medium pacer won't do as well in Aussie conditions .

 

[stephen]

With all this talk of fast bowling, I suddenly feel sad that Ryan Harris is retired.

 

[StephenZA]

He bowled well in that spell, had a bit of assistance and a bit of luck too. If any side gets on the wrong end of a spell like that they'll lose a test.

But your medium pacer won't do as well in Aussie conditions .

I don`t know, Philander did alright recently....

 

[Adders]

Anyway we've been having this discussion about Cummins and Pattinson since 2011. It's time they went out there and actually produced the goods they're capable of.

If Haze keeps his form at this level for another few years he'll go down as an ATG. Ditto Starc (Haze is closer than Starc atm though).

This I agree with.

6 years we've been hearing about how potentially great Pattinson and Cummins are going to be together. And I agree that the potential is there.........but 6 years is a long time to be speculating don't you agree?

And on Haze I also agree.........you've got a lot more legs to stand on speculating about him ending up an ATG because he has been absolutely outstanding for 30 tests now. And as I said earlier, right now I think he's the best in the world and I'd pick him first over Anderson or Broad in a world 11 no problem at all............no way the other 3.

 

[Gob]

So you're essentially saying that Cummins is streets ahead of Englands bowlers in Australia conditions............yet he has never even played a test match there. Ok.

Think i said the Aust attack.

 

[Adders]

I don`t know, Philander did alright recently....

And Broad produced a similar wrecking ball show at the Wanderers.........so no reason he can't do it in Australia. With his medium pace dibble dobbles.

 

[vogue]

And Broad produced a similar wrecking ball show at the Wanderers.........so no reason he can't do it in Australia. With his medium pace dibble dobbles.

What are 'dibble dobbbles' ?

 

[StephenZA]

What are 'dibble dobbbles' ?

Those things that are so slow that international batsmen can`t ht them. cause they have not seen it at international level for years....

 

[Scaly piscine]

Those things that are so slow that international batsmen can`t ht them. cause they have not seen it at international level for years....

I dunno, the Australian batsmen seemed to be pretty good at nicking them last time they were over here.

 

[Tom Flint]

Like they did off Johnson last time they toured here?

What was England's middle lower order back then? Then compare it to now. It was more the style of our batsmen I was getting at. They won't just look to duck and defend a quick like cummins/Johnson like we did in that Johnson series

 

[Tangles]

While I share the exciting prospect of Starc, Cummins, Haze and Patto all being fit and firing the pitches will be roads. Unless a venue gets rain that causes an interrupted preparation I'm expecting the usual home summer highways.

 

[Gnske]

What was England's middle lower order back then? Then compare it to now. It was more the style of our batsmen I was getting at. They won't just look to duck and defend a quick like cummins/Johnson like we did in that Johnson series

Yeah and last time the England middle order tried attacking a short ball they lost 6 wickets to Ishant ****ing Sharma.

 

[Bijed]

Yeah and last time the England middle order tried attacking a short ball they lost 6 wickets to Ishant ****ing Sharma.

7-74, unless Ishant has another 6-fer against us which I have driven out of my memory.

 

[Gnske]

Was 7 was it at Lords?

Even more of an indictment, England's fate is sealed for this tour. Might as well just forfeit.

 

[Burgey]

What was England's middle lower order back then? Then compare it to now. It was more the style of our batsmen I was getting at. They won't just look to duck and defend a quick like cummins/Johnson like we did in that Johnson series

Plenty of England's blokes were caught hooking or pulling in that series. Others fending the ball to short leg. You can't consistently play bowling like Johnson dished up in that series, it's not possible. Mind you, I don't know that there's many other bowlers around who could consistently produced what he did back then anyway - the angle, the consistent pace, the accuracy, that slinging action making it hard to pick up. It was a perfect storm.

 

[stephen]

Plenty of England's blokes were caught hooking or pulling in that series. Others fending the ball to short leg. You can't consistently play bowling like Johnson dished up in that series, it's not possible. Mind you, I don't know that there's many other bowlers around who could consistently produced what he did back then anyway - the angle, the consistent pace, the accuracy, that slinging action making it hard to pick up. It was a perfect storm.

Even Johnson couldn't do it consistently. If he could have he would be regarded as the greatest fast bowler of all time. I have never seen a fast bowler rattle opponents like that since the invention of the helmet.

I'm just glad it happened before 2014.

 

[TheJediBrah]

What was England's middle lower order back then? Then compare it to now. It was more the style of our batsmen I was getting at. They won't just look to duck and defend a quick like cummins/Johnson like we did in that Johnson series

I'm guessing you didn't actually see any of that series? if you did you would not be making such a silly comment.

"those guys were meek and crap and these guys we have now wouldn't have played like that" is bizarre logic

 

[ImpatientLime]

not doubting the brilliance of australia in that series but england were meek, pathetic crap too.

very much cause and effect but also a very english style capitulation. gutless.

 

[TheJediBrah]

not doubting the brilliance of australia in that series but england were meek, pathetic crap too.

very much cause and effect but also a very english style capitulation. gutless.

Anyway I wouldn't expect anything Johnson-like from the Aussie quicks this Ashes. They're good, but that was once-in-a-generation bowling.