Murali The Greatest Asian Cricketer Ever

[centurymaker]

I would give ODIs a weighting of
0.25 to 1/3

 

[subshakerz]

Having watched Imran bat somewhat would have to agree that he wasn't a great batsman but he wasn't that bad either.

Although I don't quite agree that all his not outs should be counted against him.

Btw Imran the bowler is just marginally worse than Murali the bowler and Sachin the batsman, if at all, and has a very complete record. The difference is very small and his leadership/batting bring a much much greater dimesnion to the table than Sachin or Murali's other disciplines. His fielding was worse than average though

Good point. Imran as a bowler has quite a few points over Murali in the bowling counts:

-Imran has better overall stats in average, strikerate, even though he played purely as a batsmen for the latter part of his career

-Imran has a significantly more well-rounded record, his highest average is only 28 against NZ and is particularly superb against the West Indies, the best batting lineup of his time, while Murali suffered against India and Australia

-Imran at his best achieved a higher rating than any other post-war bowler (Reliance ICC Player Rankings)

-In terms of influence, Imran had an actual legacy of fast bowlers inspired by him in Wasim, Waqar and Shoaib, whereas Murali is a freak and one-off

 

[smash84]

I would give ODIs a weighting of
0.25 to 1/3

That is a ridiculously high weight to ODIs in my book but to each his own.

 

[smash84]

Good point. Imran as a bowler has quite a few points over Murali in the bowling counts:

I wouldn't go so far actually. Have to give Murali his bowling due. Murali is as good as Imran in bowling.

 

[bagapath]

-In terms of influence, Imran had an actual legacy of fast bowlers inspired by him in Wasim, Waqar and Shoaib, whereas Murali is a freak and one-off

how does this make murali inferior? if australia doesnt produce hard hitting wicket keeper batsmen anymore doesnt that make gilchrist more special than clean keepers - but average bats, like healy and marsh?

the rest of the points are fine. i wont mind anyone rating imran above murali as bowler (or vice versa))

 

[centurymaker]

That is a ridiculously high weight to ODIs in my book but to each his own.

How is 0.3 high??? DOn't forget that before T20s, ODis were actually quite good.
For batsmen I would go for 0.2 to 1/3 (depends on when the player started his ODi career) and for bowlers 0.15 to 0.3.

For murali, sachin and imran, i would put a higher weighting on their ODis for sure.

You need different set of skills for ODIs!! If you don't suceed in ODIs then you are obviously not as good a player as some others who suceed in both.

Top order Batsmen A: avgs 45 in 60 tests and 40 in 150 ODis
Top order Batsmen B: avgs 48 in 60 tests and 30 in 150 ODis

Batsmen A slight > B

Players on avg play 2.5 times as many ODIs as tests
so
t = 2.5 d
t+ d = 1

d = 1 - t
t = 2.5 (1 - t)
t = 2.5 - 2.5t
3.5 t = 2.5
tests = 0.714 ; d= 0.286

 

[marc71178]

-Imran at his best achieved a higher rating than any other post-war bowler (Reliance ICC Player Rankings)

Interesting that.

For the record in the equivalent batting SRT is actually below 8 of his contemporaries.

 

[smash84]

How is 0.3 high??? DOn't forget that before T20s, ODis were actually quite good.
For batsmen I would go for 0.2 to 1/3 (depends on when the player started his ODi career) and for bowlers 0.15 to 0.3.

For murali, sachin and imran, i would put a higher weighting on their ODis for sure.

You need different set of skills for ODIs!! If you don't suceed in ODIs then you are obviously not as good a player as some others who suceed in both.

Top order Batsmen A: avgs 45 in 60 tests and 40 in 150 ODis
Top order Batsmen B: avgs 48 in 60 tests and 30 in 150 ODis

Batsmen A slight > B

Players on avg play 2.5 times as many ODIs as tests
so
t = 2.5 d
t+ d = 1

d = 1 - t
t = 2.5 (1 - t)
t = 2.5 - 2.5t
3.5 t = 2.5
tests = 0.714 ; d= 0.286

wow...........what a sound mathematical proof ...........but I don't quite agree with this methodology...........Tests and ODIs are totally different ball games.....no point in trying to put together averages in both formats to try and come up with a weight........

 

[shankar]

Interesting that.

For the record in the equivalent batting SRT is actually below 8 of his contemporaries.

He's actually below 9 of them. They're not exactly contemporaries. They're contemporaries of the poorer half of his career i.e. after his first 14 years. It's not surprising that so many of the batsmen from that period figure in the top 25 (9 of them from 2003-2010) since it was one was the most batting friendly periods ever.

 

[marc71178]

Which would be all well and good as an argument if it weren't for the fact that the ratings take into strength of opposition attack AND ease of scoring runs in those conditions.

 

[shankar]

Which would be all well and good as an argument if it weren't for the fact that the ratings take into strength of opposition attack AND ease of scoring runs in those conditions.

I haven't looked at the rating methodology yet, but it's interesting that 8 of the top 25 ratings in test cricket history occurred over the period 2004-2010.

 

[Engle]

Murali and Tendy never bestrode the cricket world. They never provided leadership.
So, they scored lots of runs and got lots of wickets. Big deal.

It was Imran Khan who cast his aura and authority throughout the world of cricket and it is for this reason (which compliments his batting/bowling exploits), that he separates himself from the rest and begets the title of greatest Asian cricketer

 

[miscer]

I think the second greatest batsman would disagree

 

[smash84]

I think the second greatest batsman would disagree

You mean Lara????

 

[Blaze 18]

You'll be talking about him in a few years time.

 

[smash84]

You'll be talking about him in a few years time.

People already talk a lot about him

 

[Blaze 18]

People already talk a lot about him

Teja = people?

 

[ankitj]

Murali and Tendy never bestrode the cricket world. They never provided leadership.
So, they scored lots of runs and got lots of wickets. Big deal.

It was Imran Khan who cast his aura and authority throughout the world of cricket and it is for this reason (which compliments his batting/bowling exploits), that he separates himself from the rest and begets the title of greatest Asian cricketer

Yeah, no big deal. If I took cricket more seriously and wasted less time browsing internet, I'd have scored 20,000 test runs and taken 1,000 wickets. No big deal.

 

[smash84]

Teja = people?

haha......for all practical purposes....yeah

Yeah, no big deal. If I took cricket more seriously and wasted less time browsing internet, I'd have scored 20,000 test runs and taken 1,000 wickets. No big deal.

 

[Maximus0723]

Having watched Imran bat somewhat would have to agree that he wasn't a great batsman but he wasn't that bad either.

Although I don't quite agree that all his not outs should be counted against him.

Btw Imran the bowler is just marginally worse than Murali the bowler and Sachin the batsman, if at all, and has a very complete record. The difference is very small and his leadership/batting bring a much much greater dimesnion to the table than Sachin or Murali's other disciplines. His fielding was worse than average though

That also means he lost his chance to put up bigger score and pile up more runs.

It's always hard to rate an all-rounder properly in their weaker discipline without actually having watched them. It's one area where the stats rarely paint a true picture of a player's utility to the team. For example, I strongly think Sachin was an excellent ODI part-timer (like Yuvraj these days) for a long time in the 90s, but the stats make him out to be quite ordinary. I am inclined to give a lot of weight to the opinions of those who watched Imran and Sobers play, when it comes to assessing them on their weaker disciplines. Unsurprisingly, it's hard to find too many people who actually followed their careers on here.

AWTA

I would give ODIs a weighting of
0.25 to 1/3

For players of last 20 years, I would go ~40%.