MacGill - "Might outlast next spin generation"

[Tom Halsey]

He's now back in form and is as destructive as ever...

Erm, 8 wickets on a very spin friendly track, well done have a medal.

 

[Slats4ever]

Erm, 8 wickets on a very spin friendly track, well done have a medal.

In a side where there are 4 other capable bowlers. there's 20 wickets to take in a match and he took 40% of them... that was an amazing effort and he deserved his MoM.

For those saying he wouldn't walk into their respective countries are strange! What I've seen of other spinners in the world McGill only rates a a bit behind Murali and Warne.

 

[Pratters]

In a side where there are 4 other capable bowlers. there's 20 wickets to take in a match and he took 40% of them... that was an amazing effort and he deserved his MoM.

For those saying he wouldn't walk into their respective countries are strange! What I've seen of other spinners in the world McGill only rates a a bit behind Murali and Warne.

MacGill is a world class spinner but he tends to bowl one lose delivery an over. When you compare that with Warne who almost neer bowls a lose delivery, his lose deliveries are highlighted even more.

Kumble is known for accuracy but even he bowls some lose ones which dont get highlighted as much. MacGill would compete with Bhajji and Kumble for a place in the Indian side and wouldnt be guaranteed a place. He is a good bowler almost every other spinner fades when compared with Warne as directly as MacGill has been through out his career.

 

[marc71178]

But instead of having a spinner used in a defensive type role you have an attacking strike bowler who oculd take wickets if you have Flintoff keeping it tight at the other end.

Except Flintoff is now a strike bowler, and is doing rather well at it.

 

[marc71178]

That way the reliance on the pace bowlers wouldn't be as much, and you'd actually have a chance on turners.

Giles' record on turners isn't actually very bad at all.

The traditional conditions in which England play their home games mean that a spinner who can keep it tight is an asset.

 

[Mister Wright]

In a side where there are 4 other capable bowlers. there's 20 wickets to take in a match and he took 40% of them... that was an amazing effort and he deserved his MoM.

For those saying he wouldn't walk into their respective countries are strange! What I've seen of other spinners in the world McGill only rates a a bit behind Murali and Warne.

Excellent point. If Shane Warne had of played AFL for St Kilda we wouldn't even be having this argument and could be talking about MacGill in the same light we talk about Warne. MacGill has the wickets, strike rate and proven test record to be considered a very good test player.

 

[benchmark00]

In Tests featuring both

Warne - 38 wickets @ 34.68 avg
Macgill - 44 wickets @ 23.57 avg

 

[marc71178]

And does that show that batsmen are more wary of Warne, because of his ability, thus they try to play shots against MacGill?

 

[benchmark00]

And does that show that batsmen are more wary of Warne, because of his ability, thus they try to play shots against MacGill?

or does it show that macgill is a better wicket taker?

 

[marc71178]

My reasoning was a plausible attempt to work out something.

 

[Mister Wright]

And does that show that batsmen are more wary of Warne, because of his ability, thus they try to play shots against MacGill?

There was an article somewhere (can't remember where) where someone analysed both bowlers. They said that MacGill bowls a more traditional leg spinners line on middle and off that pretty much makes the batsman play each ball therefore trying to get a wicket each ball. Whereas, Warne bowls to plans and bowls a less tradition leg spinners line outside and on leg and doesn't try to get the batsman out every ball, but works to a plan to get them out.

He said, together they should be an unbeatable force, and if given assurance that neither would lose their place in the team because of poor performance early in their career as a spin pair they could have become the most lethal partnership in test history, but because early on they felt like they were competing for the one spot they never had the chance.

 

[Pratters]

He said, together they should be an unbeatable force, and if given assurance that neither would lose their place in the team because of poor performance early in their career as a spin pair they could have become the most lethal partnership in test history, but because early on they felt like they were competing for the one spot they never had the chance.

Agreed. There is nothing more dangerous than two quality leg spinners applying pressure from both ends. Given the contrasting styles of MacGill and Warne, they would work great together. This is already proven by the stats of the matches in which they have bowled together. Australia wouldnt go with 5 bowlers though even though they have Gilly/Watson at number 7.

So the poibility of the two playing together is bleak. Also because they need some one like Kasporwic as a stock bowler option as they have only 4 bowlers. Both MacGill and Warne are attacking.

 

[Pratters]

or does it show that macgill is a better wicket taker?

Warne wasnt in the best of form during that phase. And MacGill is a quality bowler and so can get 44 at 23.5 during a one/two year phase. I wouldnt say he is as good as Warne though because Warne balls one lose delivery in 7.27 overs while MacGill bowls one in 5.89 balls. Agreed a leg spinner's role is to take wciekts and is likely to give some more runs away but with one lose delivery an over, the pressure is taken totally off as seen while MacGill is bowling some times.

 

[Mister Wright]

Agreed. There is nothing more dangerous than two quality leg spinners applying pressure from both ends. Given the contrasting styles of MacGill and Warne, they would work great together. This is already proven by the stats of the matches in which they have bowled together. Australia wouldnt go with 5 bowlers though even though they have Gilly/Watson at number 7.

So the poibility of the two playing together is bleak. Also because they need some one like Kasporwic as a stock bowler option as they have only 4 bowlers. Both MacGill and Warne are attacking.

They are both facinating bowlers to analyse. MacGill wants a wicket with every ball he bowls, and although he may offer up the odd lose one, he does bowl some extrodinary balls. The batsman can think that they are on top of him if they dispatch him a few times to the boundary, but then he will bowl a ball that may look enticing, but ends up dipping and turning, and it is just an unplayable ball, but because the batsman are in an attacking frame of mind they will get out to the ball. Then there is the odd occasion when the batsman just get out to a pie, but that is cricket - Warne has his fair share of wickets from pies too.

On the other hand, Warne does not bowl every ball to get a wicket, he will work to a plan, that is why he is often more ****ed off at a batsman taking a single than hitting him for a boundary, that doesn't worry MacGill has he tries to get a wicket every ball. Warne tends to get batsman out playing defensive shots, this is because he bowls such a tight line and length that the batsman know that one mistake will be their end (or should be). Instead of being positive against Warne and forcing him to change his plans, they generally play to his strengths by not attacking him.

IMO both are fine bowlers, and it is to Australia's disadvantage that they are both of similar age, had they been 10 years apart, either way, Australia would have two great legspinners for over 20 years.

 

[Pratters]

Warne has his fair share of wickets from pies too.

Warne wouldnt ball pies for toffies

IMO both are fine bowlers, and it is to Australia's disadvantage that they are both of similar age, had they been 10 years apart, either way, Australia would have two great legspinners for over 20 years.

Australia would have loved to have a bowler of the calibre of either one of them in their days in the 80s. I would never agree though that MacGill is as good as Warne.

Both fascinating to analyse as most leg spinners are. Leg spin is almost always attacking bowling by a spinner. This is fascinating in itself.

Both dont mind being hit for the odd boundary though MacGill doesnt mind in a larger capacity or two reasons - he has learnt to adopt to this wit the lose deliveries he bowls; its the way he bowls and it does help him take his wicket in the long run by foxing the batsmen with exception deliveries later on. The delivery he bowled to Youhana was exceptional.

The only thing which separates the two is MacGill losens te pressure if he doesnt take a wicket which Warne doesnt. Warne doesnt allow the singles even as doesnt MCgrath. Not being able to switch to the other end is another way of building pressure. The only times Warne wasnt successful was in India in the smaller stadiums when Tendulkar and Sidhu were in Bradmanesque form and on occasions against B.C.Lara. MacGill has had much more of periods of batsmen getting the better of him.

 

[SJS]

Its amazing how we will say anything to run down a player if he appears, to us, to tread on the space that we hold sacred, a pedestal shall we say, for our own hero. Hence all the rubbish one sees aimed at Lara or Sachin, or Warne and Murali depending on who one hero worships. If we cant appreciate another sportsman who may be , rightly or wrongly, in the eyes of others to be good enough to be stood besides our own 'Gods' then we do nothing more and nothing less than exhibit our own prejudices.

The case of Warne versus MacGill is something on these lines.

I have no clue as to how arrogant MacGill is or how he weighs as a human being on the dicey weighing scale of 'morals' etc. nor does it matter when I look at him as a cricketer.

He is nowhere as accurate a bowler as Warne and has nothing like the latters variations, thus it cant be anyone's case that MacGill is as good, let alone a better bowler than Shane Warne.

But so what ?

Who is?. Who has been in the last seventy years at least. So MacGill cant be denounced just because he is not as good as Warne. Leave Warne and start going back and tell me when you come to a leg spinner from Australia as good as MacGill. Irrespective of who you are and howsoever you may dislike MacGill the man, you will go a long way back. That says a lot.

In India, if you look at conventional legspin, not Kumble and Chandra's medium paced googlies and top spinners and you may go very long back to find a bowler as good as him(Hirwani didnt last too long nor did Siva). Same for most other countries with the exception of Pakistan and Qadir. So what are we talking of, one of the handful of the worlds top leg spinners in the last fifty years ! Yes, thats what he is, whether you like it or not. And thats not such bad credentials for a sportsman.

If the poor fellow doesnt find a place in Australia because Warne is already there, tell me who will ?

He has made good use of the few opportunities he has had and his figures are nothing to be scoffed at even when he has bowled in the company of his illustrious senior.

Some have talked of his getting wickets with bad deliveries. Pure and unadulterated rubbish. If he is a bowler who flights the ball more and bowls more on the stumps or on and outside the off stump, inviting batsmen to have a go, its because he is a different bowler than Warne who bowls a bit shorter and mostly a more leg stump line. Batsmen will defend Warne and , therefore get out defending it is because of the length he bowls.

MacGill bowls a conventional line and length so batsmen will go to drive him and get out driving. Kamran Akmal in the last test is a case in point. It doesnt mean he is getting wickets to bad balls or because batsmen played a bad shot and threw away his wicket. Far from it, he got the wicket the way he wanted to, getting the batsman to hit him and make a mistake.

BTW, Warne too bowls long hops and short pitched deliveries and sometimes gets wickets off them too. No doubt from batsmen suffocsted by his immaculate line not being able to handle the unexpected bad delivery when it comes along. Warne does bowl more short pitched deliveries than MacGill due to his length while MacGill bowls more full tosses for the same reason.

Maybe Australia cant use the two of them together, particularly with a fine array of pace bowlers too available, but tell me what would they have done if Warne did not exist? They would have played MacGill in each and every test. We have seen the Hoggs and the Hauritz's and others from Australia. The fact of the matter is that howsoever large you may imagine the gap between warne and MacGill to be, its much less by far, than the gap between MacGill and the next best spinner Australia has or has had in many a year.

 

[social]

For a traditional-style legspinner, Warne's control of virtually every variant is freakish. Add to this his mental capacity and it is little wonder that you have a bowler widely considered to be the greatest spinner that has ever lived (particularly by those who do not consider Murali to be a bowler at all).

As such, it is unfair to base one's assessment of another on Shane's bowling.

Stuart Macgill has said the same many times.

He does not expect to be picked in front of Warne despite having every right to be on a number of occasions (particularly when Warne played with injuries and was a shadow of his former self). In fact, some of the treatment he has received from the selectors has been disgraceful (particularly picking Haurritz and White ahead of him to tour India).

Through it all, he has compiled an outstanding test record with one of the better spinners' strike rates in test history.

To those who have said he would be lucky to make the English Test Team - you honestly dont know what youre talking about.

Ashley Giles considered retirement at the end of 2003 as his bowling was considered such a joke. 3 or 4 half reasonable matches against teams not noted for their ability to play spin does not suddenly make you a world beater. Giles' career stats are an accurate reflection of his ability - as a MacGill's.

 

[bestfriendh]

hi

well he maybe arrogant but he has the potential to take aus ahead after warne.......accordin to me he would have made it to any world side .......but he cant play for his country......wat a waste of talent.....he should have considered movin to england ........

 

[Langeveldt]

you guys are all a bunch of tossers. McGill has proven time and time again that he is Warne's equal. Only that Warne was in the right place at the right time, and McGill's a bit've an outsider in the team. McGill unlike the others would rather drink chardonnay and drink red wine, whilst the others get ****ed on beer and watch porn. McGill is the only person in the team with a University degree... a law one at that. HE is a really intelligent guy and that places him on the outer of the team....

For those of you saying he gets wickets with bad balls is clutching at straws. The only reason u say this is because statistics wise he's a top class bowler and u have to make up crap like that to make him sound otherwise. He bowls a lot of good balls that go unrewarded that play a huge role in him getting his wickets with the bad balls.

No one at the moment in the current crop will come close to him when Warne retires and it'd be great to see him continue at that time if he feels right.

I know McGill on a personal level so I'd suggest none of you make comments about his morality...

Word out.. He is right up there IMO.. People hate a bit of confidance, it gets on their nerves because they take it as arrogance.. Mediocrity junkies, getting high off their fix of "press gagging" and such, who are scared of someone who has a bit of go about him, and a few words to say..

Well, I wish Magilla every success.. And as far as competition, when Warne goes, MacGill will be number one by a country mile..

 

[Pratters]

He is nowhere as accurate a bowler as Warne and has nothing like the latters variations, thus it cant be anyone's case that MacGill is as good, let alone a better bowler than Shane Warne.

But so what ?

Who is?. Who has been in the last seventy years at least. So MacGill cant be denounced just because he is not as good as Warne. Leave Warne and start going back and tell me when you come to a leg spinner from Australia as good as MacGill. Irrespective of who you are and howsoever you may dislike MacGill the man, you will go a long way back. That says a lot.

Its more of the arrogance of some MacGill fans who think he i as good as Shane Warne, comparin the stats of the two when they have played together!

No one denies MacGill is a good player.