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Jimmy Anderson

honestbharani

Whatever it takes!!!
Excluding England Ishant averages 32 overseas. Exactly the same as anderson does in those same countries. I knew India's fast bowling had improved but never realised we apparently have Courtney Walsh 2.0 in our attack.
If Ishant could end with Courtney Walsh or even Jimmy Anderson level stats (averages, not wickets) I am not gonna complain.
 

Shady Slim

International Regular
Excluding England Ishant averages 32 overseas. Exactly the same as anderson does in those same countries. I knew India's fast bowling had improved but never realised we apparently have Courtney Walsh 2.0 in our attack.
all i'm saying is james anderson could never take a match winning seven for with 125 km bouncers in english conditions
 

Line and Length

International Debutant
I'm always amused (bemused) by Australian's attitudes towards bouncers. They, and the crowds, were non-too-happy with short deliveries and bodyline nor were they when John Snow felled Terry Jenner. Both instances saw excessive crowd remonstrations.
It was a different story when Lille and Thompson were at their prime. The chanting from the crowds almost bordered on blood-lust - no doubt inspired by Thompson's remark re loving to see blood on the pitch.
Today, Australian bowlers use bouncers to intimidate and remove tail enders. This is a tactic employed by Starc and Cummings and Johnson before them.
 

Line and Length

International Debutant
I should have added that, while I can admire hostile short pitched bowling, I prefer to watch a paceman using the subtleties of swing and cut to earn a bag of wickets.
 

Shady Slim

International Regular
I'm always amused (bemused) by Australian's attitudes towards bouncers. They, and the crowds, were non-too-happy with short deliveries and bodyline nor were they when John Snow felled Terry Jenner. Both instances saw excessive crowd remonstrations.
It was a different story when Lille and Thompson were at their prime. The chanting from the crowds almost bordered on blood-lust - no doubt inspired by Thompson's remark re loving to see blood on the pitch.
Today, Australian bowlers use bouncers to intimidate and remove tail enders. This is a tactic employed by Starc and Cummings and Johnson before them.
oh yeah i will freely admit the australian cricket watching masses are the biggest hypocrites in the world with everything from cheating to bouncers to where THE LINE is wrt how you sledge, to pitches, and so on and so forth. pride ourselves on being a bold macho nation who plays cricket tough but yeah the viewing public is absolutely filled with weenies who do exactly what you've described
 

Flem274*

123/5
unsurprisingly there have been plenty of woeful takes in this thread during my temporary absence from ecbforum.net but fortunately burgey, shady and others have fought the good fight.
 

Victor Ian

International Captain
A rather silly comment. Any nation who can bowl bouncers will support the use of them and act with bravado... Until they are on the receiving end. Then they will sook. It is not uniquely australian - it is human.
If we had conditions that produced swing bowlers, we'd think swing is where it is at. Heaven forbid, we'd even think off spin is the highest art, if our conditions were condusive to that.
All fans, from all countries are ****ers, as a whole. Those that arent usually make their way to CW.
 

Burgey

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unsurprisingly there have been plenty of woeful takes in this thread during my temporary absence from ecbforum.net but fortunately burgey, shady and others have fought the good fight.
Apparently it's all been very fraught.
 

Burgey

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I'm always amused (bemused) by Australian's attitudes towards bouncers. They, and the crowds, were non-too-happy with short deliveries and bodyline nor were they when John Snow felled Terry Jenner. Both instances saw excessive crowd remonstrations.
Same crowds loved the Windies sides of the 80s to the point where they toured here every second year. And they bowled four bouncers an over.
 

mr_mister

Hall of Fame Member
I'm always amused (bemused) by Australian's attitudes towards bouncers. They, and the crowds, were non-too-happy with short deliveries and bodyline nor were they when John Snow felled Terry Jenner. Both instances saw excessive crowd remonstrations.
It was a different story when Lille and Thompson were at their prime. The chanting from the crowds almost bordered on blood-lust - no doubt inspired by Thompson's remark re loving to see blood on the pitch.
Today, Australian bowlers use bouncers to intimidate and remove tail enders. This is a tactic employed by Starc and Cummings and Johnson before them.
Blame Jardine. He started it

Don't start none there won't be none
 

Line and Length

International Debutant
But your post inadvertently links the attitude with the origins.
That's only because you, like many others, associate the origin of bodyline with Jardine and Larwood. Bodyline, or leg-theory was employed in 1903/04 by George Hirst and in 1911/12 by Frank Foster. In Australia, pre WWI, Warwick Armstrong employed the tactic.
In 1925 Jack Scott used bodyline or leg-theory while playing for NSW and, in the same year, South Australian captain Vic Richardson instructed Lance Gun to bowl at batsmen's bodies. In 1930 the West Indies under Learie Constantine used short-pitched leg-theory. The actual term "Bodyline" wasn't used until former Test cricketer and journalist Jack Worrell coined the phrase.

It is historically incorrect to state Jardine "started it" but, seeing as I've been accused of inadvertently linking attitudes to the origins of bodyline, I thought a brief history lesson was necessary to instruct the ill-informed.
 

the big bambino

International Captain
That's only because you, like many others, associate the origin of bodyline with Jardine and Larwood. Bodyline, or leg-theory was employed in 1903/04 by George Hirst and in 1911/12 by Frank Foster. In Australia, pre WWI, Warwick Armstrong employed the tactic.
In 1925 Jack Scott used bodyline or leg-theory while playing for NSW and, in the same year, South Australian captain Vic Richardson instructed Lance Gun to bowl at batsmen's bodies. In 1930 the West Indies under Learie Constantine used short-pitched leg-theory. The actual term "Bodyline" wasn't used until former Test cricketer and journalist Jack Worrell coined the phrase.

It is historically incorrect to state Jardine "started it" but, seeing as I've been accused of inadvertently linking attitudes to the origins of bodyline, I thought a brief history lesson was necessary to instruct the ill-informed.
Now now. No need for the snark. It doesn't advance the point you failed to make with the preceding paragraph. Leg theory is not bodyline. Note how the term wasn't "coined" until someone saw Jardine employ it? If you are trying to infer a similarity with both and defend England at the same time you might be a little more thoughtful in identifying Englishmen as the instigators and as far back as 1903/04. But as it is neither Hirst or Foster would accept they bowled bodyline and Foster was on record disapproving of Jardine's tactic and regretted helping him with field settings.

Armstrong bowled leg spin and his use of the tactic most likely defensive. In any case the use of a leg spinner in attempt to prove lineage prior to Jardine's tactic is laughable. Scott also disavowed he bowled bodyline and was taken to the cleaners when bowling short at the MCC in 28/29. Constantine bowling short is not bodyline either. Gun was a batsman. I mean how desperate are you for corroboration? Perhaps as desperate as Richardson was when he threw the ball to him. He was played easily enough and the batsmen didn't fear for their well being. No cricket historian identifies Gun or Richardson as its inventor. So, yes, Jardine is the originator of fast short pitched bowling at the body with the distinctive field that characterises bodyline. No one else. So not only wonder about Australians not liking their own medicine. If you bitched about Lillee and Thommo or Lindwall and Miller then reflect on your own hypocrisy.
 

Line and Length

International Debutant
Where have I bitched about any purveyors of short pitch bowling? I'm only pointing out the hypocrisy of some Australian cricket fans - past and present.

Just because the term "bodyline" wasn't used until Jardine used it doesn't mean it wasn't employed before then.

To pick you up on a few points you have made. Any reputable article on bodyline refers to it as leg-theory. They are one and the same. What made it more effective for Jardine was a bowler called Larwood. Both Hirst and Foster (described as left arm medium fast and left-arm fast medium respectively) used leg theory during the dates indicated. The fact that they and Scott denied using bodyline is splitting hairs. They admit to employing leg-theory but deny bodyline ... probably due to the stigma. As an interesting aside, Scott (a right arm fast bowler) was the first bowler to dismiss Bradman in a first class game.
Regarding Armstrong, he used leg-theory, not as a bowler but as a captain setting leg theory fields for his quicks.

Re Lance Gun - true he was a batsman but this article might be of interest.

"Lance Gun was a left-handed batsman. He made his first-class debut at the age of 21 for South Australia in the Sheffield Shield match against New South Wales at the Adelaide Oval in January 1925. On the first day he batted at number seven, going to the wicket when South Australia were 5 for 122, and scoring 136 not out, taking the total to 389 all out.
On the second day, when New South Wales batted, Les Gwynne (also making his first-class debut) and Tommy Andrews were building a steady partnership for the third wicket against mediocre bowling when South Australia's captain Vic Richardson asked Gun to bowl. Gun set a bodyline field of seven fieldsmen on the leg side, including five behind square and one at forward short leg. Bowling right-arm fast-medium over the wicket to the right-handed batsmen, he proceeded to bowl short-pitched deliveries at the batsmen or just outside the line of leg stump. Andrews disdained to play strokes against such deliveries, but was surprised by a fuller ball from Gun that bowled him off his pads. Despite not quite knowing how to treat Gun's bowling, Gwynne reached his century, but was later dismissed by Gun, caught after skying the ball. Richardson then took Gun off, and he never bowled again in first-class cricket."


Finally, regarding Constantine.

"Freddie Calthorpe, the England captain, criticised Learie Constantine's use of short-pitched bowling to a leg side field in a Test match in 1930; one such ball struck Andy Sandham, but Constantine only reverted to more conventional tactics after a complaint from the England team."
 

Burgey

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Back on topic, we can all certainly agree Anderson wouldn’t have been capable of bowling Bodyline.
 

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