James Anderson v Tim Southee

[SteveNZ]

I know there's a zillion of these Spy v Spy, Gladstone Small v Chris Broad, Paddy Upton v Paul Downton etc sort of silly stuff but I think this one holds real relevancy.

I just see so many parallels in terms of the bowlers they were at the start of their careers, went through a period of being on the outer (Anderson's longer), had to bring down an inflated Test average in particular...and now Anderson has become the bowler through his 30s we really hope Tim could be. I'm sure there's stats that bear out these career transformations between the two as well, and I'd be interested in seeing what Jimmy averaged after age 28, 30 etc.

Will Tim mature in the same way? I don't think so. Jimmy strikes me as much more intelligent guy, a more driven guy, a more settled guy away from the game etc. Tim has never shown any desire to be a leader or to toil away in unconducive conditions - with ball nor bat.

The hilarious thing as well is that Jimmy's highest score is also better than Tim's. It's incredible for a guy, impressive as his debut was, has never bettered his best score from that time and has only taken as many wickets as he did in that innings once.

 

[Shady Slim]

not going to bother making up arguments or bending stats to suit my agenda

tim because i flat out don't like anderson

 

[Zinzan]

I thought this was a prank thread when I first read the title, but you're speculating on whether Southee at 28 could improve to get anywhere near Anderson''s level at 34. And even based on potential, I can't see it.

I doubt Southee will get anywhere near Anderson's level of consistently looking a threat on pitches that assist. Anderson doesn't waste the new ball anywhere near the way Southee does & bowls with a hell of a lot more intensity, aggression. passion & guts than Timmy.

I'd be incredibly happy if Southee even gets close (I don't mean wickets wise since he'll never play enough Tests) to Anderson in terms of skills and performance.

 

[SteveNZ]

I guess I should've worded it differently, as in 'can Tim Southee become Jimmy Anderson'

But I was following a trend. Mods can change it if they wouldn't mind.

 

[SteveNZ]

I thought this was a prank thread when I first read the title, but you're speculating on whether Southee, at 28 could improve to get anywhere near Anderson''s level at 34. Even so I can't see it..

Yeah, I'd like my time again with the thread title. Basically I put it together so I could say 'Paddy Upton v Paul Downton'.

 

[Athlai]

not going to bother making up arguments or bending stats to suit my agenda

tim because i flat out don't like anderson

This is a good post.

 

[Zinzan]

not going to bother making up arguments or bending stats to suit my agenda

tim because i flat out don't like anderson

It's weird, because from a likability POV, Anderson was one of my favs going around in about 2008-2009, & now I'm more towards your end of the court. Surely one of the more punchable faces going around the cricket world currently.

 

[Bahnz]

Southee's certainly shown the capacity to toil away and effectively lead the attack in unconducive conditions in the past. It's all a question of whether he's satisfied being a 'good enough' bowler by NZ standards, or a good bowler by world standards. So far the evidence sadly suggests the former.

 

[Shady Slim]

It's weird, because from a likability POV, Anderson was one of my favs going around in about 2008-2009, & now I'm more towards your end of the court. Surely one of the more punchable faces going around the cricket world currently.

i know it's the pot meeting the kettle at last but i just find it frustrating how whiny he is, but often doesn't back up the whining with solid performances, making it all a little comical and making him seem like a brat lol

 

[ImpatientLime]

i love how much anderson and broad boil the piss of oppo fans

 

[Shady Slim]

tbh i'm a huge broad fan, absolutely love the guy

 

[SteveNZ]

Southee's certainly shown the capacity to toil away and effectively lead the attack in unconducive conditions in the past. It's all a question of whether he's satisfied being a 'good enough' bowler by NZ standards, or a good bowler by world standards. So far the evidence sadly suggests the former.

Yeah, that's essentially the crux of what I wanted the conversation to be about. I've seen nothing to suggest it won't be the former.

I'm a massive fan of Jimmy Anderson, in terms of the bowler he's become and the batsman he always was in at least selling his wicket dearly. Absolutely love the control he has over swing both ways, plus he's an incredible fieldsman,

 

[Zinzan]

i love how much anderson and broad boil the piss of oppo fans

True, & if it's intentional they're doing a magnificent job

Truth be told, I don't dislike Broad as much as Jimmy. I liked Anderson as a younger player, but it's as if he's turned into a snotty public school boy as he's matured. It's often the other way around with players.

 

[marc71178]

i know it's the pot meeting the kettle at last but i just find it frustrating how whiny he is, but often doesn't back up the whining with solid performances, making it all a little comical and making him seem like a brat lol

If Anderson isn't turning out solid performances then there's not many bowlers in the world who are.

 

[Zinzan]

If Anderson isn't turning out solid performances then there's not many bowlers in the world who are.

Lol, I almost predicted that post when I saw your name on the main page.

 

[flibbertyjibber]

Southee is a far inferior bowler and isn't fit to lace Jimmy's boots. I guess though if you compare them at the age Southee is now then he has done better than Anderson had at the same age. Not sure he can/will improve much more though.

 

[Bahnz]

Southee is a far inferior bowler and isn't fit to lace Jimmy's boots. I guess though if you compare them at the age Southee is now then he has done better than Anderson had at the same age. Not sure he can/will improve much more though.

He definitely can, he's done it once already in his career.

Bowling records | Test matches | Cricinfo Statsguru | ESPN Cricinfo

 

[Athlai]

Yeah Southee is a pretty immensely talented individual, is he as smart or disciplined as Anderson? Time will tell, but probably not.

 

[vic_orthdox]

I haven't been following much of NZ Test cricket in the past 12 to 18 months, but my impression is that I wouldn't trust Southee to bowl a drier length and build pressure in good batting conditions like I would Anderson.

That was the biggest development in Anderson post-2009 or so, what he did when he wasn't taking wickets.

 

[vcs]

Yeah, his work in UAE last year, or Sri Lanka and India in 2012 was really good. They had Swann and Panesar in 2012 to do the damage, but it was wasted in UAE because Rashid and Moeen weren't up to the task.