Is MS Dhoni an ATG OdI batsmen?

[ankitj]

srbhkshk (what's up with that username?) is right. Splitting stats by win loss is pretty useless way to look at stats.

 

[honestbharani]

International T20s have zero ****ing relevance to Dhoni being or not being a good player in T20s? okay.

No, coz T20 record that we have all been bringing up INCLUDES T20I games. Now can you read?

And I m yet to hear an explanation of this wonderful logic where Sachin is a "good" T20 Player and MSD is "just about good".

 

[Daemon]

T20 stats are really the hardest to read amongst the three formats aren't they? Probably more so for bowlers.

 

[srbhkshk]

No, coz T20 record that we have all been bringing up INCLUDES T20I games. Now can you read?

And I m yet to hear an explanation of this wonderful logic where Sachin is a "good" T20 Player and MSD is "just about good".

International T20s are far more important in any context, MSD is not good in them. Are you really gonna rate all his Jharkhand/India/CSK/RPS games as equal?

Why are you going on and on about Sachin? He was player of the tournament in one season and had average other seasons, so I said he was good, context is something. If you are gonna stick to comparing him with Sachin then you are just concluding Dhoni to be a borderline good player, in which case if someone says he is not good - It should make half sense, rather than accusations of having "a chip on his shoulder" (and given that it has been proved wrong in a separate discussion, idk what are you on about.)

 

[OverratedSanity]

Don't know what Sachin has to do with it anyway.

 

[honestbharani]

International T20s are far more important in any context, MSD is not good in them. Are you really gonna rate all his Jharkhand/India/CSK/RPS games as equal?

Why are you going on and on about Sachin? He was player of the tournament in one season and had average other seasons, so I said he was good, context is something. If you are gonna stick to comparing him with Sachin then you are just concluding Dhoni to be a borderline good player, in which case if someone says he is not good - It should make half sense, rather than accusations of having "a chip on his shoulder" (and given that it has been proved wrong in a separate discussion, idk what are you on about.)

Random games for the country when sides experiment all the time are more important than the most watched cricket tournaments around the world... Sure. I already mentioned that T20Is except the WT20s are more meaningless than any of the T20 league games going on around the world. And given the quality of the competition and the players involved, it is obvious why. You can have your opinions that T20Is matter more than other IPL/BBL type T20 games but dont strut it around as some fact. It is not and it is obvious that everyone who matters take these leagues just as seriously or perhaps even more seriously than T20I games. Didn't we just see an Australia A side play T20I games against SL?


And I am going on about Sachin because of the wonderful selective BS logic you have been using to term that Sachin was a "good" T20 player and MSD was "just about good"... It is obvious where your bias lies so go on. You can keep thinking that you have "proven" someone wrong but the only thing you have proven is that you have a massive bias in this discussion. MSD is a very good T20 player and Ganguly was spouting crap when he said he was not. That is the end of the matter. YOu can keep claiming you have "proven" me wrong but you have just selectively shifted goal posts and argued points no one brought up. Fair enough if that helps you sleep better at night...

 

[srbhkshk]

Random games for the country when sides experiment all the time are more important than the most watched cricket tournaments around the world... Sure. I already mentioned that T20Is except the WT20s are more meaningless than any of the T20 league games going on around the world. And given the quality of the competition and the players involved, it is obvious why. You can have your opinions that T20Is matter more than other IPL/BBL type T20 games but dont strut it around as some fact. It is not and it is obvious that everyone who matters take these leagues just as seriously or perhaps even more seriously than T20I games. Didn't we just see an Australia A side play T20I games against SL?


And I am going on about Sachin because of the wonderful selective BS logic you have been using to term that Sachin was a "good" T20 player and MSD was "just about good"... It is obvious where your bias lies so go on. You can keep thinking that you have "proven" someone wrong but the only thing you have proven is that you have a massive bias in this discussion. MSD is a very good T20 player and Ganguly was spouting crap when he said he was not. That is the end of the matter. YOu can keep claiming you have "proven" me wrong but you have just selectively shifted goal posts and argued points no one brought up. Fair enough if that helps you sleep better at night...

I said the chip part was proven wrong by OS. Regarding the rest of your post, I don't want to go around in circles.

As far as international T20s being meaningless compared to IPL is concerned, I disagree.

 

[honestbharani]

I said the chip part was proven wrong by OS. Regarding the rest of your post, I don't want to go around in circles.

As far as international T20s being meaningless compared to IPL is concerned, I disagree.

No. I already responded to that.

 

[smash84]

I am not sure if it's been mentioned before but the answer to the OP is negative. Ms Dhoni isn't a batsmen

 

[honestbharani]

I am not sure if it's been mentioned before but the answer to the OP is negative. Ms Dhoni isn't a batsmen

Probably the OP thought he was so good that he was worth two batters.

 

[Red]

Gilchrist clearly his superior in this format.

 

[TheJediBrah]

International T20s are far more important in any context, MSD is not good in them. Are you really gonna rate all his Jharkhand/India/CSK/RPS games as equal?

Why are you going on and on about Sachin? He was player of the tournament in one season and had average other seasons, so I said he was good, context is something. If you are gonna stick to comparing him with Sachin then you are just concluding Dhoni to be a borderline good player, in which case if someone says he is not good - It should make half sense, rather than accusations of having "a chip on his shoulder" (and given that it has been proved wrong in a separate discussion, idk what are you on about.)

why though? He averages 36

Has he single-handedly lost a bunch of games by batting too slowly or something? Because otherwise I can't figure out why people keep saying he's good at domestic T20s but not good International T20s

 

[srbhkshk]

why though? He averages 36

Has he single-handedly lost a bunch of games by batting too slowly or something? Because otherwise I can't figure out why people keep saying he's good at domestic T20s but not good International T20s

Bats slow, he is not poor though, just not good like the other formats/places.

 

[honestbharani]

why though? He averages 36

Has he single-handedly lost a bunch of games by batting too slowly or something? Because otherwise I can't figure out why people keep saying he's good at domestic T20s but not good International T20s

He is not the ATG he is in the ODI format. That means, he is not good to some people, for whatever reason.

 

[Daemon]

"I am not too sure if MS Dhoni is a good T20 player. He is a champion ODI player but when it comes to Twenty20 cricket, in 10 years, he has got one fifty and that’s not the best record,”

Why is so much being made of this? Ganguly's clearly talking about internationals here (he has 20 fifties in T20) and to say that you are not too sure if he's a good T20I player is hardly blasphemy, even if I think it's wrong. It's not like Dhoni's been outstanding in them or anything.

 

[honestbharani]

The idea that you can judge a player on his T20I record itself is pretty laughable AFAIC. That is why a big deal is being made.

 

[OverratedSanity]

why though? He averages 36

Has he single-handedly lost a bunch of games by batting too slowly or something? Because otherwise I can't figure out why people keep saying he's good at domestic T20s but not good International T20s

Not single handedly, but he's been responsible for a few losses for sure. Hasn't made up for it by winning a billion games like in ODIs.

 

[OverratedSanity]

The idea that you can judge a player on his T20I record itself is pretty laughable AFAIC. That is why a big deal is being made.

Wtf what else do you judge him on when he's literally taking about him as a T20I batsman

 

[honestbharani]

He did not though. T20 as a game is still evolving and T20I records do not mean the same as ODI or Test records and overall T20 record means more List A or FC records. You can judge him on T20s overall instead of using ****ed up logic like T20Is. And he is not literally talking about his T20I batting.

 

[TheJediBrah]

"I am not too sure if MS Dhoni is a good T20 player. He is a champion ODI player but when it comes to Twenty20 cricket, in 10 years, he has got one fifty and that’s not the best record,”

Why is so much being made of this? Ganguly's clearly talking about internationals here (he has 20 fifties in T20) and to say that you are not too sure if he's a good T20I player is hardly blasphemy, even if I think it's wrong. It's not like Dhoni's been outstanding in them or anything.

For me it's the use of "one 50 in ten years" as supposed evidence that he's not a good player. Just guessing here but he's probably got a bunch of 40s and 30s batting at no. 5 and 6, where you don't make that many 50s in T20s in general.

It reminds of Lehmann saying Maxwell wasn't a good chance for the Test team because he hadn't made a first-class century yet in the year, completely ignoring that Maxwell had barely played a First-class game in that time because he was always in Australia's T20 and ODI teams