• Welcome to the Cricket Web forums, one of the biggest forums in the world dedicated to cricket.

    You are currently viewing our boards as a guest which gives you limited access to view most discussions and access our other features. By joining our free community you will have access to post topics, respond to polls, upload content and access many other special features. Registration is fast, simple and absolutely free so please, join the Cricket Web community today!

    If you have any problems with the registration process or your account login, please contact us.

Is MS Dhoni an ATG OdI batsmen?

vic_orthdox

Global Moderator
Come on Vic.. you know better than that. The point is T20Is are often used as throwaway random games where teams experiment all the time, outside of the WT20 and as I said, that one Asia Cup. There is no way you can conclusively state anything just because they happen few and far between and are hardly ever taken as seriously as the other formats of the game on tours. The bad thing for MSD is that the one year when T20Is were taken as a big deal (2016) he was in perhaps the worst form of his international career. And that seems to somehow cloud some folks' judgement. As I said, there is no way you can take T20I record as an indicator of a players' abilities and standing in T20 cricket, you just cannot.
Those games (including the Asia Cup) make up half of his career (38 matches out of 76).

I agree when they were one off games at the end of series, more just because it's hard to get much momentum, but since the beginning of 2015 Dhoni's had at least two games in each series. And teams have taken them more seriously because there are so few chances to prepare for T20 world cups (aside from Australia's farcical series against SL recently).

Batting records | Twenty20 Internationals | Cricinfo Statsguru | ESPN Cricinfo

Just think the idea of writing off an international career of substance, when the figures line up logically (same average, maybe lower batting position, lower strike rate which corresponds with more depth in bowling options at international level) seems silly.
 

Red

The normal awards that everyone else has
WGAF who's an ATG in an overhyped format that's only been around for about a decade and was treated as a bit of a novelty joke for the first few years anyhow?

It's like picking the all time IPL team. It's just a ****** glitzy domestic LO comp that hasn't even been around for a decade.
 

honestbharani

Whatever it takes!!!
Those games (including the Asia Cup) make up half of his career (38 matches out of 76).

I agree when they were one off games at the end of series, more just because it's hard to get much momentum, but since the beginning of 2015 Dhoni's had at least two games in each series. And teams have taken them more seriously because there are so few chances to prepare for T20 world cups (aside from Australia's farcical series against SL recently).

Batting records | Twenty20 Internationals | Cricinfo Statsguru | ESPN Cricinfo

Just think the idea of writing off an international career of substance, when the figures line up logically (same average, maybe lower batting position, lower strike rate which corresponds with more depth in bowling options at international level) seems silly.

Yes, but honestly almost all T20 series before 2016 were throw aways. So if you only consider 2016, a year when he himself is out of form and you still see a good record, again I have to ask you what is the judgement you are even making here?

And you can obviously see why the stats before that are basically so meagre to read much into, just looking at number of games played per series etc etc. Remember T20Is usually have no warm up games, and are treated very very poorly compared to how ODI and Test Series are treated in any international tour.


EDIT: I filtered for last 2 years in statsguru and his record reads 26 games, 360 runs @ 45 @ 145 SR. Again, how is that "not good"?

And I posted a link in the IPL thread as to why its obvious Ganguly is just talking out of his ass here. The day after he said "Dhoni is NOT GOOD in T20s", he has stated "Players like Dhoni and Kohli ar eexpected to perform much mroe often." So one day he calls him not good and next day he says he should perform as often as a bonafide ATG of the format. :laugh: Yeah right, no agenda here.
 
Last edited:

vic_orthdox

Global Moderator
Yes, but honestly almost all T20 series before 2016 were throw aways. So if you only consider 2016, a year when he himself is out of form and you still see a good record, again I have to ask you what is the judgement you are even making here?

And you can obviously see why the stats before that are basically so meagre to read much into, just looking at number of games played per series etc etc. Remember T20Is usually have no warm up games, and are treated very very poorly compared to how ODI and Test Series are treated in any international tour.


EDIT: I filtered for last 2 years in statsguru and his record reads 26 games, 360 runs @ 45 @ 145 SR. Again, how is that "not good"?

And I posted a link in the IPL thread as to why its obvious Ganguly is just talking out of his ass here. The day after he said "Dhoni is NOT GOOD in T20s", he has stated "Players like Dhoni and Kohli ar eexpected to perform much mroe often." So one day he calls him not good and next day he says he should perform as often as a bonafide ATG of the format. :laugh: Yeah right, no agenda here.
I've got no skin in the game regarding how Dhoni is seen as a T20 player. I just think the idea of writing off international T20 stats as a bit silly.
 

honestbharani

Whatever it takes!!!
I've got no skin in the game regarding how Dhoni is seen as a T20 player. I just think the idea of writing off international T20 stats as a bit silly.

It depends on the context. I am not writing off T20I stats here. I am saying that alone cannot be a measure of a players' T20 abilities or pedigree. Think you missed that. And again, FTR, the T20 record obviously includes the T20I games as well.
 
Last edited:

srbhkshk

International Captain
The one you have missed all thread. :)
HB : The bad thing for MSD is that the one year when T20Is were taken as a big deal (2016) he was in perhaps the worst form of his international career. And that seems to somehow cloud some folks' judgement.

Me : Actually that was a pretty decent year for him in T20Is, better than he has played before.

HB : I have clearly said something that is factually false, but I'm gonna blame your lack of understanding for my mistake.
 

honestbharani

Whatever it takes!!!
HB : The bad thing for MSD is that the one year when T20Is were taken as a big deal (2016) he was in perhaps the worst form of his international career. And that seems to somehow cloud some folks' judgement.

Me : Actually that was a pretty decent year for him in T20Is, better than he has played before.

HB : I have clearly said something that is factually false, but I'm gonna blame your lack of understanding for my mistake.

srkIdontcarewhatistrue: I have clearly said something that you never said coz it makes me look cool on an internet forum, even though I am totally wrong.
 

srbhkshk

International Captain
srkIdontcarewhatistrue: I have clearly said something that you never said coz it makes me look cool on an internet forum, even though I am totally wrong.
HB: Humm, can't admit I made a verifiable false statement which fully distorted the logic I was using, so I am gonna resort to distorting your nick.
 

honestbharani

Whatever it takes!!!
Lol.. as if it didn't in the Question on Ban Announcement threads...


Anyways, srkidontcareifIgetursnright, its really simple. I never said I was not wrong. Just because I did not come out and state that I was wrong, does not mean I think I am right. I do not look up stats all the time, that is not how I enjoy my cricket. I wrote what I remembered from those games and as I said, if the stats say he was actually better at that time, it just proves me right even more that MSD is a very good T20 player. I have already shown in the response to vic how lame Ganguly's argument is. But it looks like it will really help you feel better about yourself and your life if I say this, so let me throw you this bone.


I was wrong about Dhoni's T20I stats in 2016.


Sleep well. :)
 

srbhkshk

International Captain
But it looks like it will really help you feel better about yourself and your life if I say this, so let me throw you this bone.
A random stranger on the internet making me feel better about my life? Throwing me bones? Remarkable opinion you have of yourself.
 

Top