Is global spin bowling about to decline?

[subshakerz]

One of the things I was wondering about is relatively less appreciation there is for the modern era of spin bowling and how exceptionally blessed we were.

The golden era of spin from probably in the 60s and 70s with Underwood, Gibbs, and the Indian quartet.

The 80s really only had Abdul Qadir.

But the modern era of spin began with Warne in the early nineties and lasted for the next 20 years. You had the two greatest spin bowlers ever in Warne and Murali, and Kumble, another ATG. But more than the top three three was the next level of top class spin from Mushtaq Ahmed, Saqlain, MacGill, Harbajan, Ajmal, Swann, Kaneria, etc.. The spin stocks in global cricket seemed pretty solid even after the to three retired by 2009, with 1-2 bowlers around capable of winning matches across the globe.

Since the early 2010s, we have see Ashwin, Lyon, Jadeja, Herath, and Yasir Shah carry the torch and global spin still seemed in decent health. Would also give a shout out to Maharaj who is SA's best since readmission.

Herath has retired, Yasir Shah seems to have petered out, and I am not sure how long the rest have before calling it quits.

There doesn't seem any really top quality prospects around. Makes me wonder if we are about to enter another 80s era of low quality spin options. I wonder also what were the conditions that allowed for that special era from the nineties onwards to happen.

 

[SillyCowCorner1]

There’s a potential ATG in Gudakesh Motie.

 

[Shady Slim]

interesting timing given a debutant from sri lanka has just gone three straight innings with at least a michelle lol

 

[trundler]

Yeah only Pakistan have no decent spinners where they should have at least one. Even England have Leach who's at least better than Giles/Emburey/basically anyone between Underwood and Swann. NZ have never had a world class spinner* and just about everyone else (except Pakistan) has got one. Axar and P Jayasuriya look awesome. Plus, spinners normally just spring out of nowhere. No one's looking at Lyon before he debuted and saying there's a 400 wicket bowler.

*They just don't pick him which is worse.

 

[subshakerz]

Yeah only Pakistan have no decent spinners where they should have at least one. Even England have Leach who's at least better than Giles/Emburey/basically anyone between Underwood and Swann. NZ have never had a world class spinner* and just about everyone else (except Pakistan) has got one. Axar and P Jayasuriya look awesome. Plus, spinners normally just spring out of nowhere. No one's looking at Lyon before he debuted and saying there's a 400 wicket bowler.

*They just don't pick him which is worse.

Axar and Jayasuria look great but its early days and they need to be tested abroad. Which is the point of the great era of spin, was that you had spinners who would consistently take wickets away from home.

 

[trundler]

Axar and Jayasuria look great but its early days and they need to be tested abroad. Which is the point of the great era of spin, was that you had spinners who would consistently take wickets away from home.

That's only the big 3 though. Take out Warne and Murali who were freaks and happened to come around at the same time and you only have Kumble who was as good as Ashwin. Harbhajan, Kaneria etc were hardly setting the world on fire away from home. And yeah those guys are new but I mentioned them as young prospects which you said are lacking these days.

 

[subshakerz]

That's only the big 3 though. Take out Warne and Murali who were freaks and happened to come around at the same time and you only have Kumble who was as good as Ashwin. Harbhajan, Kaneria etc were hardly setting the world on fire away from home. And yeah those guys are new but I mentioned them as young prospects which you said are lacking these days.

Mushtaq and Saqlain in the mid-nineties onwards were good away bowlers as well Kumble 2000 onwards. Harbi was pretty good away towards the end of his career once Kumble retired. Swann and Ajmal, his chucking aside, were fairly good away as well.

 

[trundler]

Mushtaq and Saqlain in the mid-nineties onwards were good away bowlers as well Kumble 2000 onwards. Harbi was pretty good away towards the end of his career once Kumble retired. Swann and Ajmal, his chucking aside, were fairly good away as well.

That's a very long period of time though. Mushtaq was good for about 2.5 years in the early to mid 90s. May as well lump the current lot with Herath, Swann, Ajmal and suddenly things look much different. Lyon, Ashwin, Maharaj and the 3 guys from the early 10s are all better than Harbhajan away from home. You're lumping together guys from different eras and comparing them to guys active at this exact instant. Of course the latter look worse.

 

[Line and Length]

Great eras of any particular mode of bowling are dependent on the quality of the top players of that era. Many could argue that fast bowling was at its prime when the great West Indies pace attack was in action and the likes of Lillee. Hadlee and Imran were around. Just as having Murali and Warne at their peak, golden eras come along and are to be enjoyed. Everything else can appear to be seen as a decline and rather ordinary. While not quite up to a 'golden era' standard, the current fast bowling crop led by Cummings, Bumrah and Rabada is very good indeed. Current spinning stocks appear thinner simply because current spinners haven't reached the lofty heights of past greats.

 

[Daemon]

nothing's declined, batsmen have just figured out all they had to do was hit them back over their heads

 

[TheJediBrah]

and reverse sweeps are making spin bowling obsolete

 

[Migara]

But the modern era of spin began with Warne in the early nineties and lasted for the next 20 years.

No. The "modern era" of spin bowling was a myth, and if there was something of sort it started with Kumble.

60s - Gibbs, Underwoood
70s - Underwood, Chandra, Bedi, Gibbs
80s - Qadir
90s - Kumble, Warne, Murali and Saqlain

Sri Lanka even in 60s had some amazing spinners. Somachandra de Silva played only after 35 years of age, but still averaged 36 with the ball. He was as good as Qadir in his youth.

 

[_00_deathscar]

Let’s get one thing straight. Harbhajan was crap.

 

[Migara]

Great eras of any particular mode of bowling are dependent on the quality of the top players of that era. Many could argue that fast bowling was at its prime when the great West Indies pace attack was in action and the likes of Lillee. Hadlee and Imran were around. Just as having Murali and Warne at their peak, golden eras come along and are to be enjoyed. Everything else can appear to be seen as a decline and rather ordinary. While not quite up to a 'golden era' standard, the current fast bowling crop led by Cummings, Bumrah and Rabada is very good indeed. Current spinning stocks appear thinner simply because current spinners haven't reached the lofty heights of past greats.

Or we can have another perspective. In 80s, since fats bowlers dominated, those sides played on wickets at their homes either helping bowlers, or their batsmen. Their oppositions did exactly the opposite. That is the reason most of the good spinners came from sides which have got battered from WI and Australian pace batteries. The erverse happened in 90s, when SL, IND and PAK (Aus against SENW teams) prepared turners / roads at home, and other sides did the exact opposite. So we have a host of faster bowlers now who are quality, now coming from subcontinent. Only exception to the rule was Pakistan and Australia on some occasions, because they had balanced attacks.

Other than this SENAW always had quality pacers (or ones on hot form for few season) and subcontinent had spinners.

 

[Shady Slim]

Or we can have another perspective. In 80s, since fats bowlers dominated, those sides played on wickets at their homes either helping bowlers, or their batsmen. Their oppositions did exactly the opposite. That is the reason most of the good spinners came from sides which have got battered from WI and Australian pace batteries. The erverse happened in 90s, when SL, IND and PAK (Aus against SENW teams) prepared turners / roads at home, and other sides did the exact opposite. So we have a host of faster bowlers now who are quality, now coming from subcontinent. Only exception to the rule was Pakistan and Australia on some occasions, because they had balanced attacks.

Other than this SENAW always had quality pacers (or ones on hot form for few season) and subcontinent had spinners.

sorry buddy i think you mean

West Indies
Australia
New Zealand
Great Britain
South Africa

 

[trundler]

We're in a pretty spectacular era for keeper bats right now.

 

[CricAddict]

sorry buddy i think you mean

Australia
New Zealand
United Kingdom
South Africa

Corrected.

 

[Shady Slim]

Corrected.

and how about

Pakistan
India
Sri Lanka
Subcontinent (all others)

 

[Migara]

We're in a pretty spectacular era for keeper bats right now.

Nah, Flower, Gilchrist, Sangakkara and Dhoni era is gone. Could add Srewart too.

Now Pant, Bairstow and QdK are the ones who make headlines. Chandimal is also pretty good keeper bat, but none of these are as good as above four.

 

[Migara]

sorry buddy i think you mean

West Indies
Australia
New Zealand
Great Britain
South Africa

West Indies
Australia
New Zealand
United Kingdom
South Africa

Would do.