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How Many Centuries Will Phil Hughes Score?

rivera213

U19 Vice-Captain
Yes, you're right. I am naive, but then travelling to 30 countries will do that to you.
You could travel to every country in the world, you're still naive if you think sportsmen say publicly what they're really thinking.


Agree with someone else here who said you sound eerily familiar...
I don't know what to say.

Thanks, maybe?


Just because you don't agree with him, and he has very parochial viewpoints, doesn't mean that he doesn't have the right to post here.
Forgive me, but I can't help sensing a patronising tone in that post.

Please explain how my views are "parochial"? (Yes I know the meaning of the word, but I can't see how you could come to that conclusion after a matter of a few posts on cricket).

Bare in mind only Australian forumites have argued against my point. That pretty much says it all and proves my point does it not? (That Australian sportsmen/women and fans, in general, don't find "****iness" to be ****y- not you or anyone in particular, but just the general feeling I get when watching interviews).


One word:

Ganga
Dunno about that comparison.

I don't think anyone genuinely viewed Ganga as a long term player for the West Indies outside of Trinidad and Trinidad whereas Bell was scouted in his early 20's as a long-term England player in both formats of the game (this was before the invention of T-20).

The fact both get starts and piss it away is very similar, but Bell seems in complete control before he gets out and the times I've seen Daren Ganga, he's looked pretty uneasy.

Bell should have AT LEAST 4 more centuries to his name (nearer 6-8). That would be a century under every 7 innings and people would say what a ratio that is.
 

Richard

Cricket Web Staff Member
Bell doesn't trust his own game, it's how he gets out in front of the wicket so often forcing the pace.
Seriously, how often does he do that? In Tests? In ODIs obviously he does it loads, but so does everyone - it goes with the territory. You have to try to force the pace in ODIs.

Overwhelmingly Bell's most common method of dismissal is caught wicketkeeper or slip - same as most good-to-decent Test batsmen. However, he also gets bowled and lbw with enough regularity to suggest there's no one recurring fault there. I can't remember off the top of my head if he's got out caught in front of the wicket in the ring regularly against Australia, but he certainly hasn't against all teams.

He just doesn't have - or hasn't so far demonstrated - the ability to play well enough for really long periods of time to do anything much of note against top-quality attacks. Though he's very capable of pasting weak attacks for lots and lots of runs. In a way he's similar to Collingwood, though Collingwood has recently shown he can do more than that. But both of them have such high averages because they can cash-in very well on the relatively rare occasions they do cash-in, which disguises the fact that they fail most of the time.
 

Richard

Cricket Web Staff Member
The fact both get starts and piss it away is very similar, but Bell seems in complete control before he gets out and the times I've seen Daren Ganga, he's looked pretty uneasy.
In England in 2007 perhaps, but not by-and-large. Ganga is every bit as capable as Bell of looking absolutely fine for a while then just playing a crazy shot.

Devon Smith is another one, though he obviously does it far worse than Bell and even Ganga. Shiv Sundar Das is another eerily similar case from a little while back.
 

rivera213

U19 Vice-Captain
In England in 2007 perhaps, but not by-and-large. Ganga is every bit as capable as Bell of looking absolutely fine for a while then just playing a crazy shot.

Devon Smith is another one, though he obviously does it far worse than Bell and even Ganga. Shiv Sundar Das is another eerily similar case from a little while back.
Yes by and large.

Ganga's test record is only slightly worse than it should be. He's only really a 30 average test player IMHO. Sure, shot selection is part of being a quality batsman and Ganga seems to play loose shots earlier in his innings than Bell, but talent wise I wouldn't say he was a 45 average batsman like Bell is.

Bell on the other hand has got to a half-century 19 times including 6 against Australia in 20 innings. 5 of those times he's been caught. I'm no saying he should've converted all 6 into centuries, but he should've 3 of them (2nd Innings @ Old Trafford in 2005; 1st Innings @ Adelaide Oval in 2006/07 and 2nd Innings @ Perth in 2006/07).

All 3 times, he played well enough to deserve a century but then got out via poor shot selection.

Talent wise he's way above Ganga and should be averaging 45 against all the countries at least in England.
 

Son Of Coco

Hall of Fame Member
You could travel to every country in the world, you're still naive if you think sportsmen say publicly what they're really thinking.
You could, but that'd mean not going to the same place on a package tour every year.

So what are you if you think you know what I or Phillip Hughes am thinking? You've branded him ****y on the back of a statement that suggests he is because you think privately he's got tickets on himself.

I think you have an overly grandiose perception of your own mental abilities just quietly.

And I don't think the suggestion has been made that sportsmen always tell the truth, the question simply was how do you know what Hughes is like away from the cameras? You're making massive assumptions with nothing concrete to back them up. Unless we're supposed to believe that every sportsperson is a **** off camera...

Or, you could be Andre Nel :happy:
 
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rivera213

U19 Vice-Captain
So what are you if you think you know what I or Phillip Hughes am thinking? You've branded him ****y on the back of a statement that suggests he is because you think privately he's got tickets on himself.
Inever said I knew what he, or anyone else is thinking specifically. But Hughes COMES ACROSS as ****y. He can't help it and I can't help getting that feeling from him.

I wouldn't blame him if he thought he should be in the Ashes team privately, and ****iness in itself isn't a bad thing in sport.


I think you have an overly grandiose perception of your own mental abilities just quietly.
I don't believe in all that BS personally. If I could read what people were thinking, I'd be rich. Ha ha


And I don't think the suggestion has been made that sportsmen always tell the truth, the question simply was how do you know what Hughes is like away from the cameras? You're making massive assumptions with nothing concrete to back them up. Unless we're supposed to believe that every sportsperson is a **** off camera...
Sportsmen always never tell the truth! Lol

Come on man, in this day and age of scrunity and analyzing every single word and movement a sports personality does, it's only smart to have players bite their tongues or say the politically correct thing.

I know for a fact (don't ask me how I know since I wont tell) footballers are "coached" when it comes to the media, interviews and press conferences. Granted, some of them are too stupid to follow the advice but it goes on.

I'd be absoultely shocked if it wasn't the same in cricket.

I don't know what HUghes is like away from the camera. My opinion is based on the feeling I get from reading between the lines ON camera.

Being ****y doesn't make him a bad person. He could volunteer at an elderly people's home or something. But he has some ****iness in his make up just the same way Ponting and Pietersen have.

And yes, I DID think the same about KP before his international career started but since he's obviously walked the walk, I don't care.


Or, you could be Andre Nel :happy:
Na, I can bowl! Lol
 

Son Of Coco

Hall of Fame Member
Sportsmen always never tell the truth! Lol

Come on man, in this day and age of scrunity and analyzing every single word and movement a sports personality does, it's only smart to have players bite their tongues or say the politically correct thing.

I know for a fact (don't ask me how I know since I wont tell) footballers are "coached" when it comes to the media, interviews and press conferences. Granted, some of them are too stupid to follow the advice but it goes on.

I'd be absoultely shocked if it wasn't the same in cricket.

I don't know what HUghes is like away from the camera. My opinion is based on the feeling I get from reading between the lines ON camera.

Being ****y doesn't make him a bad person. He could volunteer at an elderly people's home or something. But he has some ****iness in his make up just the same way Ponting and Pietersen have.

And yes, I DID think the same about KP before his international career started but since he's obviously walked the walk, I don't care.




Na, I can bowl! Lol
I think Hayden and Symonds would disagree with that statement :happy:

I think it's widely known that players in most sports are coached in how to deal with the media. They are in the AFL, league and union here too, which is notable when you count how many 'did it for the team' and 'gave 110%' soundbites you get every week.

In the case of Hughes, I guess the only way to really tell would be to meet the guy.
 

rivera213

U19 Vice-Captain
I think Hayden and Symonds would disagree with that statement :happy:
I said "almost" every sportsmen.

Guys like Glenn McGrath & Shane Warne too.

But generally, at least in England and Europe, sportsmen resist saying what they really mean for fear of OTT media slamming, fines etc.


I think it's widely known that players in most sports are coached in how to deal with the media. They are in the AFL, league and union here too, which is notable when you count how many 'did it for the team' and 'gave 110%' soundbites you get every week.
So then why are you debating it with me, exactly?
 

Son Of Coco

Hall of Fame Member
I said "almost" every sportsmen.

Guys like Glenn McGrath & Shane Warne too.

But generally, at least in England and Europe, sportsmen resist saying what they really mean for fear of OTT media slamming, fines etc.




So then why are you debating it with me, exactly?
The post above mine will answer that for you. I think you might have slightly misunderstood what the debate was about.
 

Richard

Cricket Web Staff Member
Yes by and large.

Ganga's test record is only slightly worse than it should be. He's only really a 30 average test player IMHO. Sure, shot selection is part of being a quality batsman and Ganga seems to play loose shots earlier in his innings than Bell, but talent wise I wouldn't say he was a 45 average batsman like Bell is.

Bell on the other hand has got to a half-century 19 times including 6 against Australia in 20 innings. 5 of those times he's been caught. I'm no saying he should've converted all 6 into centuries, but he should've 3 of them (2nd Innings @ Old Trafford in 2005; 1st Innings @ Adelaide Oval in 2006/07 and 2nd Innings @ Perth in 2006/07).

All 3 times, he played well enough to deserve a century but then got out via poor shot selection.

Talent wise he's way above Ganga and should be averaging 45 against all the countries at least in England.
You seem to be suggesting shot-selection is not a talent - if it isn't, what is? Shot-selection is 95% of how good a batsman is. It's the most inherantly important thing in batting, by miles.

And yes, I think Ganga has rarely looked like a rabbit in the headlights TBH. I've seen him bat hundreds of times and it's usually exactly like Bell, Das, Smith etc. - he looks comfortable for a time, somtimes ages, but rarely goes on to make massive scores. But when he does make said massive scores they're quite compelling and look the best and surest thing in battingdom.

Quite unlike, say, Marvan Atapattu who either looked completely and totally composed or completely and totally off. And scored thus, regardless of how good or bad the bowling was.
 

Burgey

Request Your Custom Title Now!
I think Hayden and Symonds would disagree with that statement :happy:

I think it's widely known that players in most sports are coached in how to deal with the media. They are in the AFL, league and union here too, which is notable when you count how many 'did it for the team' and 'gave 110%' soundbites you get every week.

In the case of Hughes, I guess the only way to really tell would be to meet the guy.
I have met the kid, albeit before his test selection.

Came to our junior presentation last year. Didn't have to - it was sabbatical time for NSW players, but someone in our club knew his uncle, who asked if he'd come to the gig.

Here's the thing - the kid was 18, hadn't done a speaking gig before, drove with his mum and dad from Macksville to Sydney to do it, didn't get paid and was thrilled to answer questions from kids during the night and sign autographs for ages post-presentation.

We gave him a 6 pack of Crown Lagers and a bottle of bourbon. And a Wenty stubbie holder and tie, which was embarrassing as we didn't know he was coming from out of town - thought he was in Sydney. He seemed well pleased to receive them too.

So really, until I hear evidence from someone whom I consider reliable that the kid's changed and become an arrogant arsehole, I won't hear a bad word about him.

BTW, for those who don't know, Macksville to Sydney is about a 5.5 -6 hour drive, not including breaks.
 

rivera213

U19 Vice-Captain
The post above mine will answer that for you. I think you might have slightly misunderstood what the debate was about.
No, I think you just don't have a clue what you're arguing about and like the other Aussies jumping on the bandwago just want to argue without having a firm argument.


You seem to be suggesting shot-selection is not a talent - if it isn't, what is? Shot-selection is 95% of how good a batsman is. It's the most inherantly important thing in batting, by miles.

And yes, I think Ganga has rarely looked like a rabbit in the headlights TBH. I've seen him bat hundreds of times and it's usually exactly like Bell, Das, Smith etc. - he looks comfortable for a time, somtimes ages, but rarely goes on to make massive scores. But when he does make said massive scores they're quite compelling and look the best and surest thing in battingdom.

Quite unlike, say, Marvan Atapattu who either looked completely and totally composed or completely and totally off. And scored thus, regardless of how good or bad the bowling was.
Shot selection is a talent, but it's something which can be worked on. Bell's shot selection isn't a result of misjudging line or length, but either trying to force the pace, trying to assert authority unnecessarily etc. But it's not 95% of how good a batsman is, it's 95% of how SUCCESSFUL a batsman is. The 2 don't alway add up. There have been plenty of batsmen in test cricket who've punched above their weight and plenty who've failed even though they were more talented than the former.

Bell has an excellent array of shots. He can play any shot on the off side as well as many on the leg side. His drives are as picturesque as Vaughan or Tendulkar when on form. Anyone with that array of shots in their armoury which they can time almost from ball 1 has talent. The fact he has brain farts doesn't take away from that.

Graeme Hick had a great array of shots but it was mental errors which was the reason he failed at test level.

I've seen the majority of Ganga's test innings and he's never looked as set as Bell has or anywhere near the quality Bell is. Ganga is a 30 average test player and Bell is a 45-50 average test player in terms of ability and I've seen nothing from either of them to suggest differently.


I have met the kid, albeit before his test selection.

Came to our junior presentation last year. Didn't have to - it was sabbatical time for NSW players, but someone in our club knew his uncle, who asked if he'd come to the gig.

Here's the thing - the kid was 18, hadn't done a speaking gig before, drove with his mum and dad from Macksville to Sydney to do it, didn't get paid and was thrilled to answer questions from kids during the night and sign autographs for ages post-presentation.

We gave him a 6 pack of Crown Lagers and a bottle of bourbon. And a Wenty stubbie holder and tie, which was embarrassing as we didn't know he was coming from out of town - thought he was in Sydney. He seemed well pleased to receive them too.

So really, until I hear evidence from someone whom I consider reliable that the kid's changed and become an arrogant arsehole, I won't hear a bad word about him.

BTW, for those who don't know, Macksville to Sydney is about a 5.5 -6 hour drive, not including breaks.
Since when did I say Hughes was "a bad kid" or anything of the sort.

I think you Aussies are blowing this WAY out of proportion which ironically is what you slam the English for doing. Some consistency wouldn't go a miss.

Pietersen is ****y but a nice man away from cricket too. Phil Taylor too (if you call darts a sport. Lol).

Being a ****y sportsman doesn't equal being an arsehole and I never said he was an arsehole, just that he comes across as ****y so sop putting words in my mouth to justify YOUR posts.

I think coffee should be banned from Australia, it's obviously consumed in too copius an amount if this thread is anything to go by.
 
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Son Of Coco

Hall of Fame Member
No, I think you just don't have a clue what you're arguing about and like the other Aussies jumping on the bandwago just want to argue without having a firm argument.




Shot selection is a talent, but it's something which can be worked on. Bell's shot selection isn't a result of misjudging line or length, but either trying to force the pace, trying to assert authority unnecessarily etc.

Bell has an excellent array of shots. He can play any shot on the off side as well as

I've seen the majority of Ganga's test innings and he's never looked as set as Bell has.




Since when did I say Hughes was "a bad kid" or anything of the sort.

I think you Aussies are blowing this WAY out of proportion which ironically is what you slam the English for doing. Some consistency wouldn't go a miss.

Pietersen is ****y but a nice man away from cricket too. Phil Taylor too (if you call darts a sport. Lol).

Being a ****y sportsman doesn't equal being an arsehole and I never said he was an arsehole, just that he comes across as ****y so sop putting words in my mouth to justify YOUR posts.

I think coffee should be banned from Australia, it's obviously consumed in too copius an amount if this thread is anything to go by.

:laugh:

You seem confused.

You should come to Australia sometime, you could probably claim refugee status.
 

rivera213

U19 Vice-Captain
:laugh:

You seem confused.

You should come to Australia sometime, you could probably claim refugee status.
So no genuine reply then?

I love these type of posts on forums. It's the most concrete show of someone who has no idea of what they're talking about or arguing about.

Everything I've said is consistent whereas the majority of people who's argued against it have been inconsistent, blown it out of proportion, assumed something different to what I've said or, like yourself, are just plain stupid and can't read English.
 

Son Of Coco

Hall of Fame Member
So no genuine reply then?

I love these type of posts on forums. It's the most concrete show of someone who has no idea of what they're talking about or arguing about.Everything I've said is consistent whereas the majority of people who's argued against it have been inconsistent, blown it out of proportion, assumed something different to what I've said or, like yourself, are just plain stupid and can't read English.
:laugh:
 

GIMH

Norwood's on Fire
I have met the kid, albeit before his test selection.

Came to our junior presentation last year. Didn't have to - it was sabbatical time for NSW players, but someone in our club knew his uncle, who asked if he'd come to the gig.

Here's the thing - the kid was 18, hadn't done a speaking gig before, drove with his mum and dad from Macksville to Sydney to do it, didn't get paid and was thrilled to answer questions from kids during the night and sign autographs for ages post-presentation.

We gave him a 6 pack of Crown Lagers and a bottle of bourbon. And a Wenty stubbie holder and tie, which was embarrassing as we didn't know he was coming from out of town - thought he was in Sydney. He seemed well pleased to receive them too.

So really, until I hear evidence from someone whom I consider reliable that the kid's changed and become an arrogant arsehole, I won't hear a bad word about him.

BTW, for those who don't know, Macksville to Sydney is about a 5.5 -6 hour drive, not including breaks.
That's great to read, it really is. 5-6 hour drive is pretty much as long as it would take me to reach the furthest away parts of England/Scotland from mine, that's some journey. Fair play.
 

Burgey

Request Your Custom Title Now!
Since when did I say Hughes was "a bad kid" or anything of the sort.

I think you Aussies are blowing this WAY out of proportion which ironically is what you slam the English for doing. Some consistency wouldn't go a miss.

Pietersen is ****y but a nice man away from cricket too. Phil Taylor too (if you call darts a sport. Lol).

Being a ****y sportsman doesn't equal being an arsehole and I never said he was an arsehole, just that he comes across as ****y so sop putting words in my mouth to justify YOUR posts.

I think coffee should be banned from Australia, it's obviously consumed in too copius an amount if this thread is anything to go by.
But my point is there was no ****iness about him at all. On the contrary, he was as humble a person as you could wish to meet, particularly for a kid who, even then, was being touted as the next big thing.

And tbf, we need to drink copious amounts of coffee to stay awake while reading your posts :).
 

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