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Hayden calls subcontinental batsmen 'selfish'

marc71178

Eyes not spreadsheets
Swervy said:
It could easily be said that WI could have declared hours before they did to give the WI's a decent chance of getting the 20 wickets needed to win the game!!!!

People tend to overlook that to take the 20 wickets they realistically needed to declare at lunch on the 2nd day!

They also overlook the rain on the first day which meant that although they batted past lunch on day 3, they didn't even use 2 day's overs up.
 

Pratters

Cricket, Lovely Cricket
I read through the comments made in this post.

Every one acknowledges its mind games played by Hayden and yet there is disagreement.

For one thing, making an irresponsible statement about an opposition team or player will auger a reaction. Aussies seem to make sch statements more than any one else. So they get more reaction. This is not only because they have been a good side. Some times these statements have been ludicrous (which may be the exact intention to 'play' the mind games) which have extreme reactions.

So Aussie fans should not expect the statements not to be ridiculed by others either way.

If we really examine the selishness of Subcontinental batsmen, this statement could have been given a thought 5-7 years ago. Teams from the subcontinent did have the funny knack of feeling proud of a player hitting a century even though their team had lost a match.

Now though, the statement is totally irrelevent. It doesnt matter who it is made by. Teams are focussing on winning matches and wanting 'team' players in their sides.

This is probably just a curtain raiser to the India-Australia series which will happen. The drama from both teams is just beginning.

Indians are also following the stupid tradition of the Aussies of making funny statements. When McGrath says he will beat the English 3-0 and is giving them respect by saying this, Sehwag says he will score a double century in one dayers (he didnt say in how many matches cumulative though :D)
 

marc71178

Eyes not spreadsheets
Sanz said:
And how can say that Aussies were going to win the test before Zimbabwe had faced a single ball?

Erm, the fact that Zimbabwe were at that time (and still are) a woeful side, whereas the Australian's are far and away the best side in the world?

Only about 3 or so days of rain would prevent Aus winning that game.
 

marc71178

Eyes not spreadsheets
Sanz said:
India's problem is its BOWLING, not Batting. Since 2000 ICC KO trophy, against Australia, India have put up scores of 265, 315, 248, 299, 245, 265, 128, 234, 283, 209, 286, 198, 270, 303, 296, 203, 222, 151 which is about 245 runs per innings. If you consider that as a Batting failure then I am sure you have no knowledge of CRICKET.

I would wager the average score in ODI's over that time is more than 245...
 

Son Of Coco

Cricket Web: All-Time Legend
Pratyush said:
I read through the comments made in this post.

Every one acknowledges its mind games played by Hayden and yet there is disagreement.

For one thing, making an irresponsible statement about an opposition team or player will auger a reaction. Aussies seem to make sch statements more than any one else. So they get more reaction. This is not only because they have been a good side. Some times these statements have been ludicrous (which may be the exact intention to 'play' the mind games) which have extreme reactions.

So Aussie fans should not expect the statements not to be ridiculed by others either way.

If we really examine the selishness of Subcontinental batsmen, this statement could have been given a thought 5-7 years ago. Teams from the subcontinent did have the funny knack of feeling proud of a player hitting a century even though their team had lost a match.

Now though, the statement is totally irrelevent. It doesnt matter who it is made by. Teams are focussing on winning matches and wanting 'team' players in their sides.

This is probably just a curtain raiser to the India-Australia series which will happen. The drama from both teams is just beginning.

Indians are also following the stupid tradition of the Aussies of making funny statements. When McGrath says he will beat the English 3-0 and is giving them respect by saying this, Sehwag says he will score a double century in one dayers (he didnt say in how many matches cumulative though :D)
Not everyone's acknowledged it's just mind-games though, that's why there's disagreement.
 

Son Of Coco

Cricket Web: All-Time Legend
Pratyush said:
O.. Hayden has a point?
Maybe he does.......but I didn't say that in my previous post did I? Let's not jump to conclusions and give someone an excuse to go flying off the handle again..... :mellow:
 

Pratters

Cricket, Lovely Cricket
Son Of Coco said:
Maybe he does.......but I didn't say that in my previous post did I? Let's not jump to conclusions and give someone an excuse to go flying off the handle again..... :mellow:
:) all right.

But if some one does believe its not mind games and sucks up to such a statement made by Hayden....

Okay no more giving any one excuse to 'fly off the handle'
 

viktor

State Vice-Captain
Hayden's comments are IMO to an extent true. I remember inspite two of Laxman's last hundreds the score didn't end up as big as it was expected to be at one stage. Also some times Sachin has also slowed down a little when approaching a big score.

That said, Hayden's comments were made more as a part of the "mental disintegration" strategy than as constructive criticism.
 

Jnr.

First Class Debutant
What the Hell is Hayden talking about then ?
I do remember a recent ODI that India lost, involving a VVS Laxman hundred, that was (in its last stages) scored at quite a slow rate. He was moving from 90 to 100 predominantly in singles, ducking bouncers, defending, in the last 10 overs of the match with 7 wickets in hand, in fact he didn't hit another boundary until the ball after he reached his 100. If he had upped his scoring rate, India would have won.

http://aus.cricinfo.com/link_to_dat...BS/SCORECARDS/AUS_IND_VBS_ODI7_22JAN2004.html
 

FRAZ

International Captain
I definately agree with hayden . Well said hayden guy . This thing was in my mind for sure . Any ways apart from Kaif and Yousaf Youhana Almost all other batsmen are doing that ...
 

Son Of Coco

Cricket Web: All-Time Legend
Pratyush said:
:) all right.

But if some one does believe its not mind games and sucks up to such a statement made by Hayden....

Okay no more giving any one excuse to 'fly off the handle'
well, it's not really a case of if it's not one it must be the other is it?
 

Deja moo

International Captain
IMO , Sehwag , Dravid , Kaif are the most unselfish batsmen around .

Sachin and Ganguly used to go slow when nearing a century ( eg. The first ODI vs SA in SA in 2001, where both Gangs and Sachin got centuries , and India still lost. I mean , what sane excuse can they provide for scoring less than 300 when the openers both get a century each ?).

But nowadays Ganguly really bats selflessly and is not afraid to lose his wicket trying to up the run rate .

Sachin seems to bat slowly nowadays regardless of whether he is on 10* or 90*......so he cant really be called selfish anymore ( all indications are that the team wants him to bat that way now )

Yuvraj and kaif do not bat selfishly (one must be blind to think otherwise)

The only batsman IMO who qualifies for Haydens remark is Laxman. So ,I feel Haydens observetion is only partly true ( in Laxmans case).
 

Sanz

Hall of Fame Member
Swervy said:
lets see what Sanz has to say about that :D
I guess the writer was talking about Gwalior match, which was a spinning track, Tendulkar was doing fine until the spinners came, He had scored 72 in 79 , Now Brad Hogg & Symonds both spinners were bowling. Look at hayden's batting in that match 47 off 76 ( really very unselfish) and guess what Spinners were on from 8th over itself. Even Gilchrist who was cruising at 34 in 19 balls before the spinners came was once 66 in 65 balls. (Btw, Did you even watch that match ??)

But you will not understand this, Tendulkar must have been selfish and Hayden must have been struggling. :lol: When Subcontinent batsmen score slowly they are being selfish, when Aussie batsmen score slowly, they must have been struggling, playing and missing. 8-)
 

Swervy

International Captain
Sanz said:
I guess the writer was talking about Gwalior match, which was a spinning track, Tendulkar was doing fine until the spinners came, He had scored 72 in 79 , Now Brad Hogg & Symonds both spinners were bowling. Look at hayden's batting in that match 47 off 76 ( really very unselfish) and guess what Spinners were on from 8th over itself. Even Gilchrist who was cruising at 34 in 19 balls before the spinners came was once 66 in 65 balls. (Btw, Did you even watch that match ??)

But you will not understand this, Tendulkar must have been selfish and Hayden must have been struggling. :lol: When Subcontinent batsmen score slowly they are being selfish, when Aussie batsmen score slowly, they must have been struggling, playing and missing. 8-)
look..its not just Hayden who has expressed this opinion
 

Sanz

Hall of Fame Member
Jnr. said:
I do remember a recent ODI that India lost, involving a VVS Laxman hundred, that was (in its last stages) scored at quite a slow rate. He was moving from 90 to 100 predominantly in singles, ducking bouncers, defending, in the last 10 overs of the match with 7 wickets in hand, in fact he didn't hit another boundary until the ball after he reached his 100. If he had upped his scoring rate, India would have won.

http://aus.cricinfo.com/link_to_dat...BS/SCORECARDS/AUS_IND_VBS_ODI7_22JAN2004.html

We all know that Laxman is not your typical ODI batsman, He has a problem in scoring fast, problem with taking singles. That was the reason why he was dropped from World cup squad. Many Indians still feel that he should not be there in the ODI team. But he can't be called selfish. In that Particular innings Laxman was slow throughout the innings and India would have won if our bowlers had bowled little better.

A batting side scores 296 against the likes of Gillespie & Lee and loses the game IMO the batsmen can't be blamed for that. Look at the Indian bowling figures (47/7 - 6.7, 51/7 - 7.3, 40/5.5 - 7, 41/7 - 6, 39/7 - 5.5). If anyone is blaming Indian batsmen then they need their head examined.
 

Sanz

Hall of Fame Member
Jnr. said:
I do remember a recent ODI that India lost, involving a VVS Laxman hundred, that was (in its last stages) scored at quite a slow rate. He was moving from 90 to 100 predominantly in singles, ducking bouncers, defending, in the last 10 overs of the match with 7 wickets in hand, in fact he didn't hit another boundary until the ball after he reached his 100. If he had upped his scoring rate, India would have won.

http://aus.cricinfo.com/link_to_dat...BS/SCORECARDS/AUS_IND_VBS_ODI7_22JAN2004.html
Here is a recent match I also remember, Where Hayden batted too slow and Australia lost the match by just one Run.

http://www.cricinfo.com/link_to_dat...S_IN_SL/SCORECARDS/AUS_SL_ODI2_22FEB2004.html

If you want nit-picking, I can also bring back such matchs.
 

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