Hayden calls subcontinental batsmen 'selfish'

[Sanz]

I definately agree with hayden . Well said hayden guy . This thing was in my mind for sure . Any ways apart from Kaif and Yousaf Youhana Almost all other batsmen are doing that ...

Sorry we are talking about people who have scored runs in recent times or have been selfish when nearing a milestone. So Kaif and Yohana both dont fir the criteria here, last time they reached near a milestone was years ago. Matches against BD & Zim dont qualify.

 

[Pratters]

When a team usually loses a lot, the fans, media and the players start paying much more importance to individual milestones. A century in India would be cherished by an Australian batsman even if the team loses there because historically it has been tough to win there for Australia.

The problem occurs when individuals give a bit more importance to indiviual milestones than the winning itself.

Slowing down a bit while approaching a century is not uncommon in any level of cricket in any cricket though. It has happened and will continue to happen forever. Cricket is a mental game and one tends to be more cautious while approaching a century. Sidhu ofcourse is the exception to this rule

As a team starts winning more often, it becomes crucial to keep winning rather than achieving the milestones. The bigger picture of giving priority to win a game finally becomes clear.

This has been a change noticed in Indian cricket. It will become much more true for Pakistan now after Woolmer has become coach. Sri Lanka still tend to give a lot of importance to individual milestones. This is because the batting friendly pitches there keep helping them achieve these milestones....

 

[Sanz]

The pace Hayden scored his runs at (and does in general) suggests that he didn't take up too much time in getting to 380.

Incase you didn't know Sachin Tendulkar has a better strike rate than Hayden in ODIs. So much for scoring fast. Yeah mate, Tendulkar is selfish still has a better strike rate.

As for him scoring faster for his 380, There is difference in the attacks he and Lara were facing.

 

[Jnr.]

Now Brad Hogg & Symonds both spinners were bowling.

Tendulkar should've had them for lunch (and dinner)! He is used to playing in Indian conditions and those two are very mediocre bowlers.

Here is a recent match I also remember, Where Hayden batted too slow and Australia lost the match by just one Run.

Hayden got caught on the boundary (on 93), oh yes very selfish. IIRC, in that game he was really struggling at one stage - had his pads and shoes off.

 

[Jnr.]

As for him scoring faster for his 380, There is difference in the attacks he and Lara were facing.

Since when was Lara from the subcontinent?

 

[Sanz]

Tendulkar should've had them for lunch (and dinner)! He is used to playing in Indian conditions and those two are very mediocre bowlers.

That is the dumbest thing I have heard. Are you telling me that Aussie batsmen cant fail against a mediocre pace bowler in Australian pitches ??
Tendulkar didn't fail, He scored a Century which was little slow in later parts of his innings because Spinners were on a very spin friendly track. Hayden himself is a very good played of spin struggled against spin attack even when the 15 over restrictions were on.

Hayden got caught on the boundary (on 93), oh yes very selfish.IIRC, in that game he was really struggling at one stage - had his pads and shoes off.

Oh Sorry, Hayden was not selfish, he was just battung SLOW and because of that Australia LOST the match. Pot calling the Kettle black.

 

[Sanz]

Since when was Lara from the subcontinent?

When did I say he is ?? Lara is discussed in this thread because he was also called Selfish by Ponting after he scored 400 and broke the record of Mat Hayden.

 

[Sanz]

If Hayden is so unselfish and some Aussie fans have claimed that he scores at a faster rate than others then why is his strike rate lower than other Subcontinent openers like Sachin Tendulkar, Sanath Jaisurya, Saeed Anwar, Sehwag etc ?

Let me guess, Cricinfo is an Indian/english site and they must have cooked up the record books. Not fair at all.

 

[Sanz]

I would wager the average score in ODI's over that time is more than 245...

Not Really 245 by Indian teams against Australia is the best. Here is how some teams have averaged against Australia in recent matches

Eng 205 (Since 2002)
SA 228 (Since 2002)
NZ 189, (since 2002)
SL 193, (Since ICC KO 2002)
Pakistan 182 (Since 2002)

Clearly against Australia, India has batted much better than most of the ODI sides which are better than India (as per ICC Tables)

 

[Sanz]

Whereas be having a go at Hayden for "slow scoring" in the recent game you've really taken the facts in context haven't you...

Yes, I have. Unlike you and most of the aussie fans who are jumping up to defend Hayden, I have looked into most of the matches and infact also remember watching most of these matches and I have not noticed anything unusual. The scorecards also seem to suggest that my memory has been serving the right information to me.

Your reaction would have been totally different If Hayden had called Graham Thrope a selfish batsman.

 

[Swervy]

Sanz..sorry mate, to be honest you look like you are in the minority, in that most people here are willing to consider the possiblity that Hayden may have a point.

As the article says , there are critics in India of this kind of thing (and someone brought up an article on cricinfo, written by an Asian say similar)...there is no smoke without fire, some might say.

But you will not in any way admit that there is a possibility that Hayden has a point, because you are being stubborn and lets face it dont want to back down in anyway to the Aussies on here.

 

[nookie_lk]

i dont agree a bit with Hayden.........

 

[Swervy]

i dont agree a bit with Hayden.........

I never said people didnt disagree with him...I wish people would start reading posts on here

 

[nookie_lk]

it wasnt meant for u mate....donno why u got so worked up ?

i just dont agree with what hayden said thats it

 

[Swervy]

it wasnt meant for u mate....donno why u got so worked up ?

i just dont agree with what hayden said thats it

ok sorry mate

 

[marc71178]

Here is a recent match I also remember, Where Hayden batted too slow and Australia lost the match by just one Run.

http://www.cricinfo.com/link_to_dat...S_IN_SL/SCORECARDS/AUS_SL_ODI2_22FEB2004.html

If you want nit-picking, I can also bring back such matchs.

You just don't get it do you?

If you look at that match, you'll actually see that Hayden sped up as he scored more runs.

That is the exact opposite of what he is talking about the Indians doing.

 

[marc71178]

Not Really 245 by Indian teams against Australia is the best. Here is how some teams have averaged against Australia in recent matches

Eng 205 (Since 2002)
SA 228 (Since 2002)
NZ 189, (since 2002)
SL 193, (Since ICC KO 2002)
Pakistan 182 (Since 2002)

Clearly against Australia, India has batted much better than most of the ODI sides which are better than India (as per ICC Tables)

Yes, clearly, if you go back to 2000 for just India (coincidentally the earlier games being the ones where India scored more runs per innings - that's very good of you isn't it)

If we go from the same time, we get:

125, 234, 283, 209, 289, 198, 270, 303, 296, 203, 222, 151

An average of 227, which is still better than some, but nowhere near as good as you liked to make out.

 

[Sanz]

You just don't get it do you?

If you look at that match, you'll actually see that Hayden sped up as he scored more runs.

That is the exact opposite of what he is talking about the Indians doing.

Oh Really ?? Who are you trying to fool here ?? Hayden scored his 50 in 70 balls a difference of 20 balls, his final score was 93 in 116 balls a difference 23 balls. I dont see any effort to speed up the innings. I hope you are not suffering from myopia and having trouble reading the scorebook.

Edited :- Apologies to Marc, It seems I was the one who was having problems reading the scorecard. Sorry Marc.

 

[Sanz]

Yes, clearly, if you go back to 2000 for just India (coincidentally the earlier games being the ones where India scored more runs per innings - that's very good of you isn't it)

If we go from the same time, we get:

125, 234, 283, 209, 289, 198, 270, 303, 296, 203, 222, 151

An average of 227, which is still better than some, but nowhere near as good as you liked to make out.

Even If I take the above, India has still scored better than every country even SA whose last match against Aus was in 2002 when SA used to be a great ODI team. Not to mention that Australia have been a different ODI team sincd WC 2003.

Oh btw, your calculation is wrong, India's average score for the above is 231.6 (not 227).

As for going back to 2000, why dont you go back to 2001 or 2000 whatever you prefer for every team, It wont be much different, I can tell you that much. The analysis I did was was done at two different times and had no intetion of overgloryfying India's run scoring.

 

[Swervy]

Oh Really ?? Who are you trying to fool here ?? Hayden scored his 50 in 70 balls a difference of 20 balls, his final score was 93 in 116 balls a difference 23 balls. I dont see any effort to speed up the innings. I hope you are not suffering from myopia and having trouble reading the scorebook.

hahaha...he scored therefore 43 in his last 46 balls, which means he sped up by quite some way.. For someone so heavily into the scorecards, I think you need to brush up on your maths