Harbhajan reignites racism storm

[thirdumpire]

Ok, then what is the reason a black student finds it difficult to rent a house in India, in general?

DRUGS.

http://www.indiatime.com/2007/05/22/nigerian-cocaine-peddlers-disguising-as-students-in-india/

 

[honestbharani]

The whole appeal was an absolute farce put on by the ICC to keep the Indians happy. When there big flash High Court judge came along and didn't even know Harbhajan's record before sentencing it makes it seem like there was something underhanded afoot.

Money talks and bull**** walks.

yeah, which is why he mentiond to all and sundry that he is disappointed that all the records were not made available to him..


Let's see... The big flash judge has much more experience in dealing LEGAL issues pertaining to implementation and understanding of laws than the great Mr. Procter and yet, asking him to conduct the hearing is a farce!!! Makes sense, coz unlike Procter, this guy actually knew that you can't sentence people on hearsay...... So yeah, how the hell could such a person get involved in the hearing????

The big flash judge rightly points out the inconsistencies and the suspicions on the various people's evidences and rightly concludes that, based on the available evidence, there is no way in hell that Harbhajan can be justifiably booked under section 3 and books him in level 2 offence. And he also says that the only reason he isn't going into the Symonds' abuse part was because no appeal or complaint has been made from the INdian side..... He has handled this issue as well as anyone could have and it is not his mistake that the ICC or CA didn't make all evidence available to him... And anyways, all it would have meant is that he would have probably lost 100% of his matchfee... I don't think anything much different could have happened...

 

[honestbharani]

As mentioned in the article, try being an African student. I knew of a couple in Vadodara where I am from, and you'll see racism at its worst.

There are a number of Afro American guys in our universities here down South.. We have a huge population of them (in 100s) staying in a few hotels about 5 to 10 mins walk from my place... They are getting on just fine..... And the thing about racism or however you wanna put it is, a number of these Afro American or whatever guys tend to have other vices... HItting on girls, have casual affairs or flings or one night stands (these things are viewed much much differently here than elsewhere) and when you start including the fact that taking drinks (and drugs, although that is a bad thing anywhere, I guess) is seen as a bad thing in most of our country, you can see why those people are not exactly welcome guests in every home.... The point is, fairer skinned guys go through these issues too, but it doesn't make for great print and hardly ever comes out....


You honestly need to live in INdia to understand what goes on here and juz painting everything under the brush of racism is extremely naive, at best....

 

[honestbharani]

how would you term that kind of prejudice, if not racist? it is based on the person's skin colour and possibly facial features as well which in turn is inextricably linked to his/her race...among indians, casteism which is at the root of much of the forced stratification in hindu society is really a more complex(and just as evil) form of racism...

Maybe something based on skin color and features??? I know for a fact that people who are pleasant to good to great looking get away with more things and people tend to trust them and help them far more than when you are average to poor to ghastly looking... It is also about countenance at a lot of times. I have seen that outsiders ( I include other state guys as well as guys from other countries here) who are good or pleasant looking (mostly fairer you are, the better looking you are supposed to be, but a number of times some African guys are viewed as better looking than some Europeans, for instance) get things more easily here than the ones who don't look that good.


And last I heard, this was something that was common across the world. That people tend to believe, trust and more likely to employ people who look good than the ones who don't, inspite of how honest they are and how suited they are for the job... It is hardly something to criticize Indians on, I feel....

 

[Swervy]

There are a number of Afro American guys in our universities here down South.. We have a huge population of them (in 100s) staying in a few hotels about 5 to 10 mins walk from my place... They are getting on just fine..... And the thing about racism or however you wanna put it is, a number of these Afro American or whatever guys tend to have other vices... HItting on girls, have casual affairs or flings or one night stands (these things are viewed much much differently here than elsewhere) and when you start including the fact that taking drinks (and drugs, although that is a bad thing anywhere, I guess) is seen as a bad thing in most of our country, you can see why those people are not exactly welcome guests in every home.... The point is, fairer skinned guys go through these issues too, but it doesn't make for great print and hardly ever comes out....

erm....I might be missing something here....and if the above is a joke, forgive me...but are you trying to justify why people where you are have a mistrust of Afro-Americans???

There is an element of the Asian community around these parts that are dealers, pimps, undulge in domestic violence, and pick up girls from outside schools in Keighley and have *** with them. Does that make it right, or understandable for people to mistrust the entire Asian community? Not in my book it doesn't.

Again, I may well have misunderstood what you have posted there.

 

[silentstriker]

There are a number of Afro American guys in our universities here down South.. We have a huge population of them (in 100s) staying in a few hotels about 5 to 10 mins walk from my place... They are getting on just fine..... And the thing about racism or however you wanna put it is, a number of these Afro American or whatever guys tend to have other vices... HItting on girls, have casual affairs or flings or one night stands (these things are viewed much much differently here than elsewhere) and when you start including the fact that taking drinks (and drugs, although that is a bad thing anywhere, I guess) is seen as a bad thing in most of our country, you can see why those people are not exactly welcome guests in every home....
.

Thanks for proving my point.


Attributing a set of vices to a race and then discriminating them based on such stereotypes is the very definition of racism.

 

[pup11]

There are a number of Afro American guys in our universities here down South.. We have a huge population of them (in 100s) staying in a few hotels about 5 to 10 mins walk from my place... They are getting on just fine..... And the thing about racism or however you wanna put it is, a number of these Afro American or whatever guys tend to have other vices... HItting on girls, have casual affairs or flings or one night stands (these things are viewed much much differently here than elsewhere) and when you start including the fact that taking drinks (and drugs, although that is a bad thing anywhere, I guess) is seen as a bad thing in most of our country, you can see why those people are not exactly welcome guests in every home.... The point is, fairer skinned guys go through these issues too, but it doesn't make for great print and hardly ever comes out....


You honestly need to live in INdia to understand what goes on here and juz painting everything under the brush of racism is extremely naive, at best....

Mate what sort cocoon do you live in, just because no racism takes place around in your area, so that means racism doesn't exist in India, good and bad are part of every society in the world and India is no different, so just stop being so lame.

 

[Ikki]

Nah, the fairer/darker prejudices aren't based on race at all. If a Bengali is darker, there is prejudice against him. If a Chinese is darker, there is prejudice against him. People favour fairer skinned sibling compared to the darker skinned sibling in the same family. As I said, it is dire but not racist.

The caste aspect which you said, it is subjective whether it is racist or not but it is as bad as racism according to me concept wise (as I said earlier). Thankfully, things have improved from the past in this front after the Raja Ram Mohan Roy reforms more than 100 years back. It is still dire that castism exists in India but it is not as bad as before (though that doesn't mean that it is right in whatever shape and form wherever it exists).

Now don't think that I am trying to defend India or the subcontinent or do not have much idea about racism because I do (to any one who might feel this way) . I am the kind of person who believes that the life of animals, birds or any other living creature is as precious as the life of humans and so forget humans, I am very sensitive towards all life. I am strongly against racism but the colour biasness we see in India is not racism.

Those examples are that of racism. It doesn't matter if you're Chinese or African - these are just distinctions based on nationality. People of the same nationality can have people of different race. Race has a broader meaning.

 

[Langeveldt]

Not really racism, just a bunch of spoilt, instantly dislikable primadonna's playing in a massively over rated test series..

 

[Pratters]

Those examples are that of racism. It doesn't matter if you're Chinese or African - these are just distinctions based on nationality. People of the same nationality can have people of different race. Race has a broader meaning.

Not based on nationality. Even siblings are discriminated depending on who is fairer and who is darker.

 

[FRAZ]

Not based on nationality. Even siblings are discriminated depending on who is fairer and who is darker.

Pratyush it's harsh but that is an absolute truth .

 

[Ikki]

Not based on nationality. Even siblings are discriminated depending on who is fairer and who is darker.

That's racism. What are you missing here? Even siblings can have different physical traits which come from different races that exist in them.

 

[Pratters]

That's racism. What are you missing here? Even siblings can have different physical traits which come from different races that exist in them.

Two brothers in the same family being discriminated because of who is fairer and who is darker is racism? Then every form of bias is racism.

 

[Anil]

Maybe something based on skin color and features??? I know for a fact that people who are pleasant to good to great looking get away with more things and people tend to trust them and help them far more than when you are average to poor to ghastly looking... It is also about countenance at a lot of times. I have seen that outsiders ( I include other state guys as well as guys from other countries here) who are good or pleasant looking (mostly fairer you are, the better looking you are supposed to be, but a number of times some African guys are viewed as better looking than some Europeans, for instance) get things more easily here than the ones who don't look that good.

And last I heard, this was something that was common across the world. That people tend to believe, trust and more likely to employ people who look good than the ones who don't, inspite of how honest they are and how suited they are for the job... It is hardly something to criticize Indians on, I feel....

i don't think the issue is as simple/superficial as your examples are attempting to show...it is much more deep-rooted than that and any sort of irrational prejudice that goes on in various different parts of the world is open to criticism, why should the indians be exempt from it? it's not as if anyone over here is saying prejudice, discrimination and racial injustice is confined to india...

 

[luckyeddie]

That's racism. What are you missing here? Even siblings can have different physical traits which come from different races that exist in them.

So very true.

You know, 20% of the population of this planet is now Chinese.

That's one in five. Stating the obvious, if you take five people together, the odds are that one of them is going to be Chinese

Now take the time when I lived at home with my parents - there was that very same magic number - five - all of us in the house together.

There was my Mum, my Dad, me, my brother Frank and my other brother Lee Hup Sing.

Personally, I think Frank was the Chinaman.

 

[honestbharani]

erm....I might be missing something here....and if the above is a joke, forgive me...but are you trying to justify why people where you are have a mistrust of Afro-Americans???

There is an element of the Asian community around these parts that are dealers, pimps, undulge in domestic violence, and pick up girls from outside schools in Keighley and have *** with them. Does that make it right, or understandable for people to mistrust the entire Asian community? Not in my book it doesn't.

Again, I may well have misunderstood what you have posted there.

Mistrust of Afro Americans alone??????? I said that a number of the foreign students tend to behave that way... Not all and definitely not even the majority, going by my experience in the university. But still, some guys were like that and were hence viewed with suspicion... And I don't understand the fuss about this here... If you see a certain group of guys and you know a couple of them are bad, then you tend to become suspicious of the whole group. Again, not based on their race or anything yet, because I know for a fact a number of people don't want ANY foreigners as their paying guests... It is never right but to an extent, it is understandable, esp. since a number of these people are not the most educated ones around. It happens with north Indians, irrespective of the color of their skin, there are some in our area who simply don't trust north Indians because a couple of them were bad when they stayed here... It is not right and it is a very bad thing, but it is definitely not racism.


Anyways, what exactly is meant here by racism? I felt the definition is that you think a particular race is inferior to yours... That is what racism is, AFAIK. That is not the case here.. It almost applies to most foreigners...

 

[Anil]

my other brother Lee Hup Sing.

lee hup sing sanders eh?

 

[viktor]

Mistrust of Afro Americans alone??????? I said that a number of the foreign students tend to behave that way... Not all and definitely not even the majority, going by my experience in the university. But still, some guys were like that and were hence viewed with suspicion... And I don't understand the fuss about this here... If you see a certain group of guys and you know a couple of them are bad, then you tend to become suspicious of the whole group. Again, not based on their race or anything yet, because I know for a fact a number of people don't want ANY foreigners as their paying guests... It is never right but to an extent, it is understandable, esp. since a number of these people are not the most educated ones around. It happens with north Indians, irrespective of the color of their skin, there are some in our area who simply don't trust north Indians because a couple of them were bad when they stayed here... It is not right and it is a very bad thing, but it is definitely not racism.


Anyways, what exactly is meant here by racism? I felt the definition is that you think a particular race is inferior to yours... That is what racism is, AFAIK. That is not the case here.. It almost applies to most foreigners...

There are a number of ways to define racism. I think racism is discrimination against people because of their race.
The example you gave about north Indians is more xenophobia than racism while the discrimination against Africans ( I doubt any significant number of African-Americans come to study in India, btw) is racism. Both are of course, wrong. Equally, imo.

 

[Ikki]

Two brothers in the same family being discriminated because of who is fairer and who is darker is racism? Then every form of bias is racism.

If you like one more because one is more intelligent, that's not racism. Let's say you think one is more handsome than the other, that's not racism. But to purely differentiate based on skin colour...that's racism. We aren't all of one pure race. We are mixed. One racial trait comes from one group, another from another group. You can have brothers who do exhibit these differences. So, bias because of racial traits...is...exactly...racism.

 

[Slow Love™]

Some very interesting own goals in this thread. Educational, to say the least. I'm not interested in claiming any high moral ground on this (I live in Australia and my mother was born in Belgium, and King Leopold II murdered and maimed A LOT of Africans) but it seems to me that there are certainly some (dare I say it, middle class) Indians here who really do appear to be in some kind of denial.

BTW given the discussion taking place immediately preceding my comments, I'm not referring to Pratyush, who, while I'm not sure of the value of the distinction he appears to be making, isn't denying that racism exists in his country.