Anil
Hall of Fame Member
i don't think you have....what about my explanation do you not get? i am saying the prejudices you listed in your last two posts on this thread are two different things and need to be looked at differently...
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Harbhajan reignites racism storm
- Thread starter Richard
- Start date
luckyeddie
Cricket Web Staff Member
I have been called an "English bastard" on many occasions in the past.
Any minority can be on the receiving end of racism - even in these more enlightened times, there are a number of places even in and around a cosmopolitan city like Dublin I wouldn't dream of going to, because if I happened to let it slip that I was English (i.e. opened my mouth), I just might end up leaving in a box.
Or isn't it racism if it's one white abusing another?
luckyeddie
Cricket Web Staff Member
I've got a 'A' word in mind when I think about you with respect to your recent contributions to Cricket Web - and it's not 'Arm Pits'.
Pratters
Cricket, Lovely Cricket
You said they are different from 'the prejudices you mentioned'. Where I am concerned, I have addressed the prejudices you mentioned. If you feel I haven't, point out because I can't figure it out.
Pratters
Cricket, Lovely Cricket
It has nothing to do with racism which is the point as biasness exists regardless of whether you are a chinese, japanese or siblings in the same family depending on whether you are darker or fairer.
viktor
State Vice-Captain
Ok, then what is the reason a black student finds it difficult to rent a house in India, in general?
silentstriker
The Wheel is Forever
Well, English is not a race. The fact that you can pass as an Irish speaks to that. Now if you were white and in Zimbabwe, then you'd certainly experience racism.
Pratters
Cricket, Lovely Cricket
The darker skinned fellow can be Japanese, Spanish or even a South Indian christian with darker skin. So it would be a deep prejudice against darker skinned people but not racism.
Matt79
Global Moderator
Correct. At one point the English, and say the French or Irish, were definitely distinct peoples. There were physical traits that were common among one group and not the other. The entire notion of "race" as something that has any scientific basis or is something that can be precisely defined is a fiction - science has shown there's no genetic difference between one 'race' and another. There's genetic heritage that contributes to a persons appearance, but that's only a matter of degrees from the genes that make a person short or tall, or have blue eyes or brown eyes.
Given its an artificial construct we've imposed on ourselves, then the answer obviously lies in the fact that its definition is in the context and view of the beholder.
Given its an artificial construct we've imposed on ourselves, then the answer obviously lies in the fact that its definition is in the context and view of the beholder.
Top_Cat
Request Your Custom Title Now!
Yeah, supporting this is that people who are supposedly of different 'races' can breed. Biologically that makes them exactly the same. Same number of genes, etc.
The argument we're talking about here is more about ethnicity and the discrimination aspect, even though technically not racism, is colloquially referred to as such. This is why the argument of 'no racism in India' is a straw man fallacy; yes of course, there's no basis for race but ethnicity is the basis upon which people get discriminated against routinely world wide and India appears not to be immune. Colloquially, ethnicity = race. We all know it so arguing 'no racism in India' becomes one of semantics to, I suspect, divert the issue.
Pratters
Cricket, Lovely Cricket
Look, the colour bias we see is like say the bias some one might have towards blondes or skinheads. Now the skinhead can be from any place or race but people might be feeling anti towards the skinhead. I would call it a deep bias but not racism. Suppose people are deeply biased against people with long noses or long hair, now I would not term that as racism.
The caste system of India - it is subjective whether it is racism or not but it is as bad as racism if not racism. So I wouldn't have a problem if people term that as such.
The colour bias isn't racism though and it is not any attempt to divert any issue. It was raised by a writer on Cricinfo and not some one trying to defend a stand.
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From everything reported in the media - it was the Indian players , specifically led by Tendulkar and Kumble, who circled the wagons around Harbhajan and pushed BCCI into supporting them. As the supposed representative of all cricketing players, Tim May should've known that, I presume.
shortpitched713
International Captain
There is a markedly different way that prejudice is exhibited towards Black Africans or those of Black African descent than there is towards those other groups though. You may not see it in your own particular community, but I personally have found it to be true of the prejudices of the general subcontinental/subcontinentally descended community.
Pratters
Cricket, Lovely Cricket
Yeah I think Anil was talking about this as well - that the prejudice shown towards Black Africans is markedly different. I happened to go to a college which did have a fair few black students I came to know and I didn't see any marked prejudices towards them compared to a few South Indian friends of mine who were of very dark skin. From whatever experience and understanding I have, I do not see a marked difference. If a marked difference exists specifically to African descent students, it would very much be racism though. I do not know of it from my experiences and knowledge though and so will agree to disagree with Anil and you that it exists from what I know on the topic.
Anil
Hall of Fame Member
maybe to someone else, sorry i haven't seen all your posts in this thread..what i mean is the indian(or more broadly the subcontinental) people are pretty complex in the expressions of these kinds of behaviour...not everything is racist(like the examples you gave in your previous post, they could be classified in the "extremely dire" category but not necessarily the typical definition of racism), but there are significantly racist overtones in certain kinds of behaviour like attitude towards black students and black people in general, casteism etc...casteists have the belief that the higher castes(brahmins and kshatriyas) were descended from the aryan race that invaded most of india centuries ago and that the two lower castes(the vaishyas and the shudras, especially the shudras) were dravidian descendants...as you know the aryans were the warrior race and had conquered and more or less enslaved the dravidians especially in south india which led to the demise of the indus valley civilization...the aryans were the significantly fairer-skinned group and considered that as one of their marks of superiority over the darker-skinned dravidians...
this even explains to a large extent the undercurrent of contempt that the north indian(especially the upper castes) has over the south indian and the stereotype of the "madrassi"....of course this is a general statement and there are certainly plenty of exceptions especially in today's generation...
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