Freddie to retire after the Ashes

[four_or_six]

Has he said what he's going to do with regards to Lancs? Will he play four day stuff for them, or only OD and Twenty20 for them too?

Just the shorter forms...

 

[Craig]

Well it wasn't surprising he has chosen to retire. Well played, I certainly changed my opinion on him and admit I was wrong about him early on.

 

[Langeveldt]

I think he's been one of the most consistantly over rated cricketers ever, from debut to final test.. True he had the ability to turn the odd game on it's head, but if you look at the stats in the cold light of day, they aren't particularly pretty.. To have him mentioned in the same breath as people such as Jacques Kallis and Ian Botham wasn't much cop for mine, still that is not his fault, and he played his cricket with a brilliant attitude, and remained a quality bloke at all times and a fearful bowler when he wasn't losing limbs left right and center... Definitely sad that IPL/Baseball has claimed another cricket victim..

 

[wpdavid]

Moving on, I was pondering how England might look in the post-Freddy era. I don't see any other bowler doing a viable job at 7 for us, so we'll need a batsman at 6 followed by the keeper and 4 bowlers. That in turn makes it hard for Broad's inclusion to be justified unless we're playing 4 quicks and no spinner.

 

[Richard]

Apparently he plans to play through to the 2015 World Cup!

Good luck to him.

If Flintoff plays in the 2015 World Cup at the age of 37 I'll eat the CricketWeb server.

 

[Langeveldt]

Moving on, I was pondering how England might look in the post-Freddy era. I don't see any other bowler doing a viable job at 7 for us, so we'll need a batsman at 6 followed by the keeper and 4 bowlers. That in turn makes it hard for Broad's inclusion to be justified unless we're playing 4 quicks and no spinner.

Broad basically needs to come to the party with his bowling.. I already rate him as a better batsman than Flintoff

 

[Richard]

To have him mentioned in the same breath as people such as Jacques Kallis and Ian Botham wasn't much cop for mine

Who really ever did that?

Honest truth was he was only in that category very briefly, whereas said two were in it for 5-6 years if not more.

 

[Langeveldt]

Who really ever did that?

Honest truth was he was only in that category very briefly, whereas said two were in it for 5-6 years if not more.

A few people on here for the former, and basically the entire English press for the latter..

 

[wpdavid]

Broad basically needs to come to the party with his bowling.

For sure. There probably needs to be as much progress again as there has been in the last 12 months for him to justify being part of a 4-man attack.

I already rate him as a better batsman than Flintoff

Probably better than Fred was at the same age.

 

[Richard]

Moving on, I was pondering how England might look in the post-Freddy era. I don't see any other bowler doing a viable job at 7 for us, so we'll need a batsman at 6 followed by the keeper and 4 bowlers. That in turn makes it hard for Broad's inclusion to be justified unless we're playing 4 quicks and no spinner.

It's already been sort of said, but...

England with Flintoff in the side are stronger. England waiting for Flintoff to come back into the side are weaker. This is a good development to avoid the latter ever happening again.

Though once again - who honestly, seriously believes there won't be a "we've surely got to get Flintoff back in the Test side" comment at any point? Maybe hundreds of them, for years. FFS, there were plenty of occasions when it was thought wistfully about Stephen Harmison being back in ODIs, and a) England barely cares about ODIs and b) Harmison was an utterly hopeless ODI bowler for most of his career.

The idea that the thought of Flintoff playing Tests while he isn't going to has finished holding back the Test side is a pretty fanciful one, I reckon. I reckon it's going to be an issue near enough every tour, especially the ones where the Tests come after the ODIs. And once Flintoff comes to realise what not playing Tests entails, who is seriously confident he'll have the strength of mind and long-term strength of memory to resist making an ill-advised comeback?

 

[Richard]

A few people on here for the former, and basically the entire English press for the latter..

Types given to exaggeration, in short; types who should rarely have much attention paid them.

The good-quality posters on here essentially never made that suggestion. So thus it annoys me that we have to constantly put-up with people banging-on about those who did.

 

[Furball]

Definitely sad that IPL/Baseball has claimed another cricket victim..

It's done nothing of the sort.

 

[Uppercut]

I don't think that's necessarily true. I think he's well-respected in Australia and liked by a great number of people. Personally I'd rate him quite highly, but I think the fact that he's been injured so frequently makes it hard to get a grasp on exactly what he has achieved as those of us in countries other than England haven't seen him as often as we would have liked. I don't follow English cricket either, so I don't keep up-to-date on everything that happens. He was awesome in England in 2005 though and I have seen his over to Kallis which was outstanding. He's a top-class player when fit and great to watch.

The idea of Flintoff being fit at the start of this Ashes series and ready to play 5 matches was something that made me wonder if we could win. I thought if he and Pietersen played well and had good backup from other players then they were a great chance. Needless to say, I'm not totally devastated he may not play all 5. But I hope he gets a good send-off from the format.

I was talking about Flintoff's ODI record- he's a genuine world-class all-rounder in ODIs, yet nobody in England cares.

On the subject, is he the most popular English cricketer ever? I don't think I've ever met nor spoken to anyone who doesn't like the guy.

 

[Richard]

I was talking about Flintoff's ODI record- he's a genuine world-class all-rounder in ODIs, yet nobody in England cares.

Not quite. But indeed, if Flintoff were Sri Lankan or Kiwi, he'd probably be rightly lauded to high heavens for his ODI brilliance.

On the subject, is he the most popular English cricketer ever? I don't think I've ever met nor spoken to anyone who doesn't like the guy.

There's a fair few like that TBH - Ben Hollioake barely ever had a bad word said about him, he was just a) nowhere near as good as Flintoff and b) taken from us aged just 24, meaning he's not so well remembered.

Plenty of others who slip off the radar too.

 

[G.I.Joe]

It's done nothing of the sort.

Of course, it has. IPL is the sole reason for Flintoff getting injured again and again and again and again and again....

 

[GIMH]

I think he's been one of the most consistantly over rated cricketers ever, from debut to final test.. True he had the ability to turn the odd game on it's head, but if you look at the stats in the cold light of day, they aren't particularly pretty.. To have him mentioned in the same breath as people such as Jacques Kallis and Ian Botham wasn't much cop for mine, still that is not his fault, and he played his cricket with a brilliant attitude, and remained a quality bloke at all times and a fearful bowler when he wasn't losing limbs left right and center... Definitely sad that IPL/Baseball has claimed another cricket victim..

He turned more than the odd game on its head, but sure, let's just judge him on his stats. And how do you explain blaming T20 for his decline, makes no sense, whatsoever

 

[Uppercut]

Not quite. But indeed, if Flintoff were Sri Lankan or Kiwi, he'd probably be rightly lauded to high heavens for his ODI brilliance.

There are very, very few all-rounders with a better record than Freddie in ODIs. His stats are arguably on a par with Lord Polly, the greatest ODI player ever. I don't consider him quite as good as that, but he's still world-class IMO.

 

[Richard]

Of course, it has. IPL is the sole reason for Flintoff getting injured again and again and again and again and again....

The most recent injury would have happened at some stage regardless of anything. It's actually rather a good job for England that it happened in the IPL and not mid-Ashes.

The others, of course, predated the IPL at all.

Nonetheless, it's inevitable that some will see it that Flintoff would once have given-up everything else in order to play Tests, and in this new IPL World has chosen instead to do the opposite.

This perhaps rather overlooks the fact that Flintoff is already a multimillionnaire IPL or no IPL and could quite easily afford to completely turn his back on the whole thing.

 

[Richard]

There are very, very few all-rounders with a better record than Freddie in ODIs. His stats are arguably on a par with Lord Polly, the greatest ODI player ever. I don't consider him quite as good as that, but he's still world-class IMO.

For certain. Flintoff is a very strong if not near-irrefutable contender for a place in a modern-times ODI XI. But it's not, quite, the case that no England fan appreciates his ODI brilliance. Only the majority of the country are indifferent to the format. After all, England's home ODIs have been sell-outs pretty much from the first to most recent.

 

[Richard]

He turned more than the odd game on its head

TBF, he didn't, but at one stage that was because he was so regularly playing a huge part in putting England ahead in the game that he deprived everyone in the side, including himself, of the chance to turn the game in England's favour, because it'd been that way from very early on.