Fred Trueman vs. Alan Davidson

[Matt79]

See, I've never understood this and no-one's been able to explain to me why batting against bowlers on mats would be that much harder. The bowlers might get a little more cut and a little more bounce but it's the unpredictability of bounce/cut/seam that makes batting on turf tougher. Once you got used to the pace and bounce, I'd have thought batting on turf would be far easier. Against bowlers of roughly the same standard, I've certainly scored more on matting than turf when I played. And I suck with the bat.

Seriously, can anyone explain why batting on matting is supposedly so much more difficult?

I've read Neil Harvey having a whinge (seems unlikely, I know, but bear with me) about the matting in some of those tests, and the fact that in his view, you had to double check that the mat hadn't been surreptiously loosened during breaks in play to create an uneven, unpredictable surface. In the process of explaining why he ****s all over batsmen of latter years, he noted that this maybe them virtually unplayable in comparison to a proper wicket. Now, bearing in mind that things must have been pretty bad for Harvey to complain - let alone unfavourably compare modern players - that's pretty revealing.

That said, other judges rated some of Harvey's innings on those mats some of the most amazing batting they'd seen.

 

[Migara]

See, I've never understood this and no-one's been able to explain to me why batting against bowlers on mats would be that much harder. The bowlers might get a little more cut and a little more bounce but it's the unpredictability of bounce/cut/seam that makes batting on turf tougher. Once you got used to the pace and bounce, I'd have thought batting on turf would be far easier. Against bowlers of roughly the same standard, I've certainly scored more on matting than turf when I played. And I suck with the bat.

Seriously, can anyone explain why batting on matting is supposedly so much more difficult?

I was a spinner, and I just loved to bowl on the matting. On turf I got huge turn (some times I could hit the stumps by pitching it 2 1/2 feet out side leg on length, bowling over the wicket) but it was painfully slow. I got one third of that on the matting, but I was close to unplayable for the opposition. Keeper got some balls at chest height when standing on some occasions. Spinners, love the bounce more than turn.

 

[archie mac]

Good points all. Was just under the assumption that Test teams would ensure mats free of debris underneath, laid tightly, etc. Definitely do remember in junior cricket buggers who'd lay the matting tight one week when they'd bat and put woodchips underneath loose mats the next week.

Sam Loxton when he was the manager of 1959 tour of Pakistan would go down to the ground every morning to supervise the laying of the matting, and would yell at the groundsman "pull it tighter you bastards"

 

[Top_Cat]

I've read Neil Harvey having a whinge (seems unlikely, I know, but bear with me) about the matting in some of those tests, and the fact that in his view, you had to double check that the mat hadn't been surreptiously loosened during breaks in play to create an uneven, unpredictable surface. In the process of explaining why he ****s all over batsmen of latter years, he noted that this maybe them virtually unplayable in comparison to a proper wicket. Now, bearing in mind that things must have been pretty bad for Harvey to complain - let alone unfavourably compare modern players - that's pretty revealing.

That said, other judges rated some of Harvey's innings on those mats some of the most amazing batting they'd seen.

Amazing is Neil Harvey taking the opportunity to rate himself highly again. Not.

I was a spinner, and I just loved to bowl on the matting. On turf I got huge turn (some times I could hit the stumps by pitching it 2 1/2 feet out side leg on length, bowling over the wicket) but it was painfully slow. I got one third of that on the matting, but I was close to unplayable for the opposition. Keeper got some balls at chest height when standing on some occasions. Spinners, love the bounce more than turn.

Well aware of that but in my experience, spinners have a tough time on mats. once you get over the top of the bounce, anything slightly short and it was cuttable or pullable, regardless of the amount of spin on the ball.

 

[archie mac]

Well aware of that but in my experience, spinners have a tough time on mats. once you get over the top of the bounce, anything slightly short and it was cuttable or pullable, regardless of the amount of spin on the ball.

Yes true, Austs best bowler on the matting was 'Slasher'

 

[neville cardus]

Viewed purely as trundlers, Trueman takes the patty, but Davidson's considerable value as a batsman ought not to be forgotten. So considerable is it, in fact, that, as a genuine cricketer, he would find his way into my team ahead of his Yorkshire vis-à-vis in spite of his inferiority as a bowler.

 

[Migara]

Well aware of that but in my experience, spinners have a tough time on mats. once you get over the top of the bounce, anything slightly short and it was cuttable or pullable, regardless of the amount of spin on the ball.

May be. But even pulls and cuts go right up in the air if it has bit more bounce, and if it arrives at the batsman quicker.

There were finger spinners who spun it very little on the matting, but bowled with great speeds. When they miixed there off break (which turns sufficiently to beat the batsman for few inches) with straighter ones, it was a night mare for batting. Even the slightest edge carried to slips even when you play with soft hands.

 

[aussie]

May be. But even pulls and cuts go right up in the air if it has bit more bounce, and if it arrives at the batsman quicker.

There were finger spinners who spun it very little on the matting, but bowled with great speeds. When they miixed there off break (which turns sufficiently to beat the batsman for few inches) with straighter ones, it was a night mare for batting. Even the slightest edge carried to slips even when you play with soft hands.

hey SRI guy how would you profile former Sri Lankan seamers Rumesh & Ravi Ratnayake & De Mel?

 

[PlayerComparisons]

Davo

 

[Coronis]

Wonder if opinion has changed at all on this in the past 15 years. Davo with a clearly better away record, more big hauls, even ended up playing more in England than Trueman did in Australia. In fact Trueman played 47 home, 20 away, Davidson 17 home, 27 away.

 

[Line and Length]

Now look at the reason Trueman played fewer away games.

 

[Flem274*]

Trueman's strike rate relative to his peers was out the gate.

This is actually a very, very tough comparison.

 

[ankitj]

Trueman, not Lillee, was the first alpha pace bowler.

 

[Coronis]

Now look at the reason Trueman played fewer away games.

I know the reasons. It still surprised me considering their overall test matches. As did Davidson playing that many more away matches than home.

 

[Starfighter]

Trueman, not Lillee, was the first alpha pace bowler.

I'd say Spofforth, but guys like 'Foghorn' Jackson has a reputation of being aggressively imposing too.

 

[ankitj]

I should have added "modern" too. Spofforth played on uncovered wickets that have not been encountered for many decades.

 

[Starfighter]

Spofforth played on uncovered wickets that have not been encountered for many decades.

So did Trueman.

 

[ankitj]

Really? Genuinely didn't know those wickets extended into 50s and 60s.

 

[Starfighter]

Really? Genuinely didn't know those wickets extended into 50s and 60s.

Depends on the country and ground. Australian pitches were covered from 1951 onwards, but Trueman's performance against India in 1952 was on uncovered pitches - as was Laker's 19 in '56.

The last Ashes test played on an uncovered pitch was the Lord's test in 1975.

 

[ataraxia]

Underwood a final great exponent of uncovered; the change in county cricket was late 70s I believe.