Did Barry Richards do enough to be considered in an All Time Team

[kyear2]

There were 3 teams, W.I. Australia and Rest of the World. The West Indies and Australia players also played for the rest of the world when playing agains aus/w.i, while the rest of the world players could only play for that team. Plus most of the games were btw W.I and Australia.

 

[smash84]

There were 3 teams, W.I. Australia and Rest of the World. The West Indies and Australia players also played for the rest of the world when playing agains aus/w.i, while the rest of the world players could only play for that team. Plus most of the games were btw W.I and Australia.

hmmm....makes sense

 

[Prince EWS]

Richards batting was wonderful to watch - he had so much time in which to play the ball - I'd been watching him for a few years before I realised he'd had any sort of Test career so it certainly wouldn't have changed my view if he'd averaged 30 in those four Tests

Assuming you've seen a lot of Ramprakash and/or Hick at county level, what would be your thoughts on them if they'd never played Test cricket?

 

[smash84]

good question

 

[fredfertang]

Assuming you've seen a lot of Ramprakash and/or Hick at county level, what would be your thoughts on them if they'd never played Test cricket?

Hick, at county level, was just ruthlessly efficient. Ramps was/is more stylish but still nothing on Barry Richards - Brian Lara and Martin Crowe, when at their best, are the only batsmen that bear comparison with him in terms of the way they play (ie I'm not saying they're the best three batsmen I've ever seen - just the three I have most enjoyed watching)

 

[smash84]

Martin Crowe was such a gun

 

[fredfertang]

Martin Crowe was such a gun

Indeed he was, and I don't suppose he was 100% fit very often - what might he have achieved if he had been?

 

[smash84]

The Shoaib Akhtar of batting

 

[kyear2]

The difference between Hick and Richards are from the start when he started test cricket he was badly exposed. For Richards every chance he got at the highest level (test and WSC) though limited, he excelled.

 

[shivfan]

With regard to Richards himself, the comparison with Pollock is two fold. Pollock played in more test matches, but all were still againts Australia and after isolation he prefered to stay in S.A. while Richrds enhanced his reputation by plying his wares the World over and exposing him self to the best attacks first class cricket had to offer. WSC also offered him a chance to prove what he was truly capable of, and his stats showed : World Series Cricket Player Records - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia .
The main difference between Pollock and Headley was that Headley's 20 test was spread over 10 years which was much harder that 2 series againts the same team in your prime. This is why Headley is rated higher.
Ps. The WSC stats also show why Greg Chappel is the best Australian bat since Bradman and among the top 8 middle order batsmen of all time.

From the link you quote above, Barry Richards seems to have played only five WSC matches....that is not enough, IMHO, to judge a player's 'greatness'.

And with regards to FC cricket, remember that Graeme Hick was brilliant at county cricket, but sucked at Test level.

No, Barry Richards had potential, but because of South Africa's apartheid policies, he didn't get a chance to test that potential. He's only a 'what if' IMHO.....

 

[shivfan]

no they practised apartheid, let's keep it that...

Exactly....

Apartheid was such a terrible system that a stance had to be taken, even if it meant us not seeing Barry Richards, Graeme Pollock and Mike Proctor at the highest level. They could always have done a Tony Grieg/Basil D'Oliveira/Kepler Wessels and migrated to England or Australia to play Test cricket for them, but they chose not to, except for the occasional FC season.

 

[wpdavid]

Exactly....

Apartheid was such a terrible system that a stance had to be taken, even if it meant us not seeing Barry Richards, Graeme Pollock and Mike Proctor at the highest level. They could always have done a Tony Grieg/Basil D'Oliveira/Kepler Wessels and migrated to England or Australia to play Test cricket for them, but they chose not to, except for the occasional FC season.

Broadly agree, but you can't really compare Richards, Pollock and Proctor (who all played for SA before they were kicked out) to D'Oliveira (who wasn't able to due to skin colour) and Greig & Wessels, who didn't play test cricket until after SA were banned. tbf I have no idea what the rulings were in the 1970s if Richards and the others had wanted to switch nationality.

 

[JBMAC]

I would have to agree with most sentiments here in the fact that for whatever reason, Richards never got to ply his trade in the test arena. WSC, while it has become an integral part of cricket history, just does not cut it.On a personal note i have seen him play in both wsc and shield here in australia and do honestly believe he would have been one of the greats

 

[harsh.ag]

Well, to be honest, if I had to pick two batsmen to open for my side, I would pick Len Hutton and Barry Richards - and it would be legendary

 

[weldone]

In my opinion personally:

Jack Hiobbs
Sunil Gavaskar
Len Hutton
Herbert Sutcliffe
Barry Richards

In the order they were mentioned. Not including the likes of Grace and Trumper here because I find it harder to rank them and have no idea where to place them.

Ah, I had exactly this pecking order in mind lately.

 

[Red]

In the book "Bradman's Best", Bradman includes Barry Richards as an opener with Arthur Morris. Bradman bases this on his time spent in the Sheffield Shield with SA and on the Super Tests, as well as his FC career and limited tests.

Bradman's reasoning is his aggressive nature, Bradman wanted all the batsmen he chose to be able to score quick enough to bowl the opposition out twice.

When I am picking an ATG team, I usually consider 20 tests enough to warrant selection. Unfortunately BR didn't play enough by that criteria.

But the fact Bradman considered him so highly and included him in his ATG team makes me wonder if it's ok to do so!!

On reading more of Arthur Morris, he is a player I rate much higher than I used to. Without including Richards, I rank openers as follows:

J. Hobbs
= A. Morris
= S. Gavaskar
= L. Hutton
G. Greenidge
H. Sutcliffe

Trumper, as mentioned by someone else, is hard to rate, but he belongs in the mix somewhere.

 

[Jager]

Pecking order for me would be...

Hobbs
Trumper (although I like him more in the middle order)
Hutton
Sutcliffe
=Richards
=Morris
=Gavaskar
Grace

 

[Debris]

In the book "Bradman's Best", Bradman includes Barry Richards as an opener with Arthur Morris. Bradman bases this on his time spent in the Sheffield Shield with SA and on the Super Tests, as well as his FC career and limited tests.

Bradman's reasoning is his aggressive nature, Bradman wanted all the batsmen he chose to be able to score quick enough to bowl the opposition out twice.

When I am picking an ATG team, I usually consider 20 tests enough to warrant selection. Unfortunately BR didn't play enough by that criteria.

But the fact Bradman considered him so highly and included him in his ATG team makes me wonder if it's ok to do so!!

On reading more of Arthur Morris, he is a player I rate much higher than I used to. Without including Richards, I rank openers as follows:

J. Hobbs
= A. Morris
= S. Gavaskar
= L. Hutton
G. Greenidge
H. Sutcliffe

Trumper, as mentioned by someone else, is hard to rate, but he belongs in the mix somewhere.

Bradman's all-time XI was possibly the worst serious attempts I have ever seen. Would not take it as much of a guide.

 

[kyear2]

+1

Picked players he played with, watched live or reminded him of himself.

 

[kyear2]

That being said, one can do a lot worse than Richards and Morris especially as a right left combination . To me though Hobbs has to be the first opener in any exercise with Gavaskar, Hutton and Richards fighting it out for the second spot. Sutcliffe, Morris and Greenidge would be in the next tier not far behind.
Edit:
Forgot about Trumper, he too belongs up there, while on the other hand, still trying to figure out exactly where to rate Sehwag.