Cricinfo's all time XIs - India

[Himannv]

Since its pre-partition, I think he should be allowed to qualify for both teams. The country he chose to live in afterwards is irrelevant. Its like saying that Tony Greig should be considered for an Australian team because he lives in Australia now despite being born in South Africa and playing for England.

 

[Avada Kedavra]

Since its pre-partition, I think he should be allowed to qualify for both teams. The country he chose to live in afterwards is irrelevant. Its like saying that Tony Greig should be considered for an Australian team because he lives in Australia now despite being born in South Africa and playing for England.

Fair enough.Like I said,it depends on how pedantic you are with "India".

But the analogy itself is flawed I'm afraid. If England had been split into two - England and Aus,and Tony had then chosen to become a citizen of that Aus, then that'd be a good analogy.

 

[G.I.Joe]

No he was a British subject.

Was he eligible to play for England?

You claimed that he never played intl cricket for Pak so I showed you that he played domestic cricket in Pakistan (and was too old to play Pak's first test) and was a Pakistani citizen.

Playing domestic cricket in Pakistan doesn't change the fact that he played Test cricket for only one country - India. Azhar Mahmood doesn't qualify for consideration for an English all time XI despite the fact that he might now be a citizen of the UK, and has played domestic cricket there. He needs to have actually represented England in Test cricket for a start.

There is nothing racist or whatever about my posts at all.Just that you start crying as soon as you are proven wrong (no doubt the usual multi accusations will start soon).Just so you know I am a proud Indian Muslim of Pak descent.

This is a cricket forum and we are perfectly entitled to discuss as to whether or not Nissar can qualify for an all-time XI Indian side.

You clearly need to properly understand what being 'proven wrong' entails.

 

[bagapath]

I think the argument is that the country called India before partition is not the same India that exists now, which is absolutely correct. British India was both, what later became, India and Pakistan.

If Kardar chose to play for Pakistan post partition he should be considered only for the all-time Pak XI; same goes for Mushtaq Ali and India. It looks like Nissar would have played for Pakistan had he been given a chance. I am not too sure if should be considered for an all time Indian XI.

 

[Sir Alex]

I think the argument is that the country called India before partition is not the same India that exists now, which is absolutely correct. British India was both, what later became, India and Pakistan.

If Kardar chose to play for Pakistan post partition he should be considered only for the all-time Pak XI; same goes for Mushtaq Ali and India. It looks like Nissar would have played for Pakistan had he been given a chance. I am not too sure if should be considered for an all time Indian XI.

Have to agree with this.

 

[Migara]

Correction - he played for British India.Post partition he lived his life and died in Pakistan.AH Kardar played for the same "India" that Nissar did.

Mohammad Nissar | India Cricket | Cricket Players and Officials | Cricinfo.com

So you are still looking for that illusive express pacer?

 

[Migara]

Correction - he played for British India.Post partition he lived his life and died in Pakistan.AH Kardar played for the same "India" that Nissar did.

Mohammad Nissar | India Cricket | Cricket Players and Officials | Cricinfo.com

You want to pick All India XI or All Hindustan XI?

 

[Avada Kedavra]

I think the argument is that the country called India before partition is not the same India that exists now, which is absolutely correct. British India was both, what later became, India and Pakistan.

If Kardar chose to play for Pakistan post partition he should be considered only for the all-time Pak XI; same goes for Mushtaq Ali and India. It looks like Nissar would have played for Pakistan had he been given a chance. I am not too sure if should be considered for an all time Indian XI.

Excellent post.Precisely what I've been saying.Nissar would have definitely played for Pakistan had they got independence in his playing days,as can be seen by the fact that he was always pro-Pakistan and chose to migrate to Pakistan and was a Pakistani citizen.The argument that he didn't play international cricket for Pak is a lame one because he was 42 when Pak played their first test.

 

[Avada Kedavra]

You want to pick All India XI or All Hindustan XI?

All time Indian XI post 1947.

 

[Avada Kedavra]

So you are still looking for that illusive express pacer?

How dare you forget Ashok Dinda

 

[G.I.Joe]

I think the argument is that the country called India before partition is not the same India that exists now, which is absolutely correct. British India was both, what later became, India and Pakistan.

Tough titties. You play the cards you're dealt. You don't rewrite history based on what you would have wanted to do if things had been different.

If Kardar chose to play for Pakistan post partition he should be considered only for the all-time Pak XI; same goes for Mushtaq Ali and India. It looks like Nissar would have played for Pakistan had he been given a chance. I am not too sure if should be considered for an all time Indian XI.

As things stand, Nissar didn't and couldn't play Test cricket for Pakistan. So there. He did play Test cricket for India though, and that's a bit of history that can't be erased from the records. Indian test cricket dates from 1932, not 1947.

 

[Sir Alex]

Tough titties. You play the cards you're dealt. You don't rewrite history based on what you would have wanted to do if things had been different.



As things stand, Nissar didn't and couldn't play Test cricket for Pakistan. So there. He did play Test cricket for India though, and that's a bit of history that can't be erased from the records. Indian test cricket dates from 1932, not 1947.

No Indian cricket starts from sometime in 1893 when that match was played in Champaner.

 

[weldone]

No Indian cricket starts from sometime in 1893 when that match was played in Champaner.

Reminds me of the great Indian all-rounder who opened both batting and bowling, made century on debut, won a match by hitting a six in the last ball and always took the wicket of the opposition captain in all the matches he played...

 

[Sir Alex]

Reminds me of the great Indian all-rounder who opened both batting and bowling, made century on debut, won a match by hitting a six in the last ball and always took the wicket of the opposition captain in all the matches he played...

Despite matchfixing, and unearthed the greatest leggie ever to have touched a ball.

 

[weldone]

Despite matchfixing, and unearthed the greatest leggie ever to have touched a ball.

no way...especially because there are quite evident suggestions that his action couldn't be termed as 'legal' in the modern context...

 

[BoyBrumby]

I think the argument is that the country called India before partition is not the same India that exists now, which is absolutely correct. British India was both, what later became, India and Pakistan.

If Kardar chose to play for Pakistan post partition he should be considered only for the all-time Pak XI; same goes for Mushtaq Ali and India. It looks like Nissar would have played for Pakistan had he been given a chance. I am not too sure if should be considered for an all time Indian XI.

Small point, but Raj India actually consisted of three current sovreign nations: India, Pakistan and Bangladesh. If we take the pre-partition India test side as distinct from the post-partition team then, in all equity, we have to do the same for Pakistan pre and post 1971. The Pakistan test side from 1947-1971 represented both modern-day Pakistan and Bangladesh.

 

[bagapath]

Tough titties. You play the cards you're dealt. You don't rewrite history based on what you would have wanted to do if things had been different.



As things stand, Nissar didn't and couldn't play Test cricket for Pakistan. So there. He did play Test cricket for India though, and that's a bit of history that can't be erased from the records. Indian test cricket dates from 1932, not 1947.

I think you are taking the names too seriously. Had we become Bharat and Pakistan after 1947 then you wouldn't be associating present day India with the India British were ruling. The country that played test cricket from 1932 to 1947 doesn't exist anymore. Instead, there are three test nations in its place. Could Nissar be considered for all time bangladesh xi ?

 

[Avada Kedavra]

Small point, but Raj India actually consisted of three current sovreign nations: India, Pakistan and Bangladesh. If we take the pre-partition India test side as distinct from the post-partition team then, in all equity, we have to do the same for Pakistan pre and post 1971. The Pakistan test side from 1947-1971 represented both modern-day Pakistan and Bangladesh.

I don't think a single East Pakistani(present day Bangladeshi) has ever represented Pakistan.May be I am wrong and there might have been one but that would be about it.

 

[bagapath]

just saw your post boy brumby. india and pakistan being carved out of british india, and east pakistan gaining independance from pakistan are two different kind of historical events. pakistan still exists. bangladesh just split from it. but british india is gone. india and pakistan are new nations.

if a pakistani player setlled down in bangladesh post his playing days he should still be considered for the pakistan xi (like how engineer should be considered for all time india Xi despite him living in england). because the country he represented still exists and plays test cricket. but british india is gone. the country that played test cricket from 1932 to 1947 doesnt exist anymore. it is wrong to assume that india is the same as present day india.

 

[bagapath]

GI Joe! I never said Nissar should be considered for all time pak XI. pak cricket history starts after 1947. so does India's.

If some players from pre independence days managed to play test cricket for India or Pakistan after partition then they are candidates for their respective national teams. others, those who played only from 1932 to 1947 for British India, should be ignored.