Bevan vs. Hussey vs. Dhoni

[Sir Alex]

I hold Bevan a little bit higher than what his stats state, because he pretty much defined a role that wasn't there beforehand, and made many people realise about how to most effectively use death overs; that the pure "slog" wasn't how it should be approached, especially in chases. The pioneer effect, as such.

Ranatunga, Azhar, Inzy all were earlier proponents of that approach. But fair to say Bevan made it a distinct role.

 

[honestbharani]

Depends on the finishing role. Lara managed to get sides home, but how many of those were in the last 5 or so, and how many were easy victories? I guess another thing is that it is a bit different finishing off a game when you have been in for 30 to 40 overs. Someone coming in with 10-15 left, as Dhoni, Hussey and Bevan regularly do batting at 5/6/7 is a very different skill.

Talking about Briza, I remember one game years ago (about 1996, I reckon) where the required run rate for the Windies got about 9 an over with over 10 overs left. Back in those days, no-one won from there, but Lara went nuts and got 80-odd to get his side home.

yeah.. kinda my point. I have seen enough of Lara to know that you don't talk about him amongst finishers but that is how these stats show up, which is my point.


But yeah, Lara on his day, took batsmanship to pretty amazing levels, be it in tests or ODIs... The reason I would love to see the two best batsmen of the generation open for my all time ODI XI, esp. since Dhoni has come in and done so well...

 

[Uppercut]

Dhoni averages 124 at 92 in successful chases.

Indeed. I think his record is just a little bit too awesome for me to look past Dhoni here. As always it's a difficult comparison, Bevan played a different game to Dhoni and Hussey. You'd take Bevan when chasing 240 on a tricky pitch but Dhoni when chasing 320 on a flat pitch. They're each products of their time.

It really comes down to personal opinion, but I have a lot of respect for the fact that Dhoni equalled the others while keeping wicket and, for the latter half of his career, captaining India with tremendous success. I'll go Dhoni>Bevan>Hussey. It'll be a lot easier when they finish their careers.

 

[Migara]

None of them have to deal with short stuff, batting after the 20th over mark. It's irrelevant to the role, it's like saying that they can't deal with underarm

I beg to differ. Bowling in later overs has taken a new form with bouncer law. Now they cannot camp on the front foot waiting the ball to be bowled there.

Short pitched bowling with a soft ball isn't threatening, or wicket-taking. It's a method of scoring a dot through surprise, or maybe getting someone out caught on the fence to a well struck shot.

Once again this is false. Try telling it to a real quick bowler. A bouncer at 145k even with a tennis ball do hurt if you get it in your face. In test matches bouncers bring wickets with even older balls.

 

[Ikki]

This might be the Aussie in me, but until either do anything significant at the WC I wouldn't put them equal to Bevan - who for me is on par with Tendulkar and Richards, although playing a completely different role.

 

[Uppercut]

This might be the Aussie in me, but until either do anything significant at the WC I wouldn't put them equal to Bevan - who for me is on par with Tendulkar and Richards, although playing a completely different role.

Yeah, I definitely don't give WC performances as much preference as most others. There's far too much scope for luck to take over in one-off big games.

 

[Cevno]

I am not getting the definition of finisher in this thread.

Finshers have different roles to play in different situations.Even batting first a finisher might have to make a 30 oiff 10 balls to take his team's score from good to very good.While batting second there is a different role to play.

I have to say weighing all assets of a finisher .I would rate Bevan ahead of Dhoni just by a small margin, Considering he played in a era where Strike rates and even averages were lesser than they are these days.
While i rate Dhoni so highly because, can play a first innings finisher role too as well as a second innings finsher where once he gets set does not leave till the end.He can also score quickfire runs when required and carry the team till then end from number 3 ,4 and 5 as well not only 6.
Dhoni if he does mantain this for long he may do it often enough to overtake Bevan though.

 

[analyst]

I would pick Bevan, Dhoni and Hussey last. Reasons are quite simple really, Bevan played in era with superior bowling, Dhoni is capable of being a floater in all forms of cricket, Hussey's decline and recent recovery does not fill me with confidence that he has the confidence and aura he had when he entered in international cricket.

 

[pasag]

I would pick Bevan, Dhoni and Hussey last. Reasons are quite simple really, Bevan played in era with superior bowling, Dhoni is capable of being a floater in all forms of cricket, Hussey's decline and recent recovery does not fill me with confidence that he has the confidence and aura he had when he entered in international cricket.

Hussey's decline has been only in Test cricket though, he's still been one of Australia's best ODI players throughout this time, contributing fantastically.

 

[analyst]

Hussey's decline has been only in Test cricket though, he's still been one of Australia's best ODI players throughout this time, contributing fantastically.

To be fair, Australia the name destroys most of their opponents rather than Hussey or White or anyone else having to rescue their team with complete respect to his achievments. I think if adequate pressure was applied from a quality state batsman, Hussey's time would have come. Australia normally have extremely high standards.

 

[pasag]

IMO I can't see Dhoni maintaining his brilliant and well deserved record if the BCCI keep scheduling so many pointless ODIs against teams like SL. He's only 28 but I reckon the strain on his body from the past few years will be too much unless there are some serious changes in the next few years.

 

[pasag]

To be fair, Australia the name destroys most of their opponents rather than Hussey or White or anyone else having to rescue their team with complete respect to his achievments. I think if adequate pressure was applied from a quality state batsman, Hussey's time would have come. Australia normally have extremely high standards.

Nah, he's just a really, really good ODI batsman.

All-round records | One-Day Internationals | Cricinfo Statsguru | Cricinfo.com

 

[analyst]

Nah, he's just a really, really good ODI batsman.

All-round records | One-Day Internationals | Cricinfo Statsguru | Cricinfo.com

Limited amount of 100's, take Ponting and Clarke out of the equation, would Hussey step up?

 

[pasag]

Since when does anyone care about 100s for lower middle order ODI players? It's completely irrelevant.

And Hussey HAS stepped up when we've been pretty weak with our batting with some players out of form, retirements, injuries, banishments etc. He's been brilliant in some pretty dire times for us in ODIs that are thankfully gone.

 

[Uppercut]

Limited amount of 100's, take Ponting and Clarke out of the equation, would Hussey step up?

Clarke's been beyond awful in that time and Hussey's remained excellent. Sorry, I think you have to step down here. That Hussey's incredible at ODIs is pretty much a fact.

 

[Top_Cat]

I beg to differ. Bowling in later overs has taken a new form with bouncer law. Now they cannot camp on the front foot waiting the ball to be bowled there.

Once again this is false. Try telling it to a real quick bowler. A bouncer at 145k even with a tennis ball do hurt if you get it in your face. In test matches bouncers bring wickets with even older balls.

No idea how any of that is relevant to when Bevan was actually playing.

Anyway, Bevvo's troubles against the short-ball were always so overplayed. The guy had a couple of admittedly very, very ugly outs to short ones and suddenly he's scared of short-pitched bowling? Not having that, sorry. Did the job many times against some quick bowlers at all levels, certainly enough to put paid to any doubt he could play short stuff. Had far bigger issues outside off-stump, especially in Tests.

As for the comparison, Bevvo was an innovator and Dhoni probably hasn't caught him yet but geez he can't be too far off. Been excellent for a while now.

 

[Spark]

Limited amount of 100's, take Ponting and Clarke out of the equation, would Hussey step up?

Has done on many occasions.

 

[Sir Alex]

Hussey's decline has been only in Test cricket though, he's still been one of Australia's best ODI players throughout this time, contributing fantastically.

Hussey is a fantastic one day batsman. But he had never been required to churn out matchwinning performances as regularly Dhoni has been. For example, Dhoni has three times more runs scored in successful chases than hussey.

 

[GotSpin]

No idea how any of that is relevant to when Bevan was actually playing.

Anyway, Bevvo's troubles against the short-ball were always so overplayed. The guy had a couple of admittedly very, very ugly outs to short ones and suddenly he's scared of short-pitched bowling? Not having that, sorry. Did the job many times against some quick bowlers at all levels, certainly enough to put paid to any doubt he could play short stuff. Had far bigger issues outside off-stump, especially in Tests.

As for the comparison, Bevvo was an innovator and Dhoni probably hasn't caught him yet but geez he can't be too far off. Been excellent for a while now.

Yeah agree with Bevan and the short ball. His prolific scoring in FC is surely testament to the fact that his troubles with the short ball have been overplayed.

 

[pasag]

Hussey is a fantastic one day batsman. But he had never been required to churn out matchwinning performances as regularly Dhoni has been. For example, Dhoni has three times more runs scored in successful chases than hussey.

Well I wasn't making any comparison between them and refuse to do so till Dhoni at least gets to the twighlight of his career. So much can change between now and then.