Best XI's ever put out in a test match by each country?

[Zinzan]

Pardon me if I'm mistaken but didnt NZ draw a series in Australia in the early 2000s??

Yes in 2001-02 it was 0-0 in the 3 tests, and then a decade later in 2011 it was 1-1 in the 2 tests.

 

[jimmy101]

Both were captivating series', the 2011 Hobart Test was an absolute thriller.

 

[Days of Grace]

A good way to do this is to go the ICC ratings of the batsmen and bowlers (choose one allrounder and give them their allrounder rating) on the date that the match started.

 

[wpdavid]

A good way to do this is to go the ICC ratings of the batsmen and bowlers (choose one allrounder and give them their allrounder rating) on the date that the match started.

Are you offering?

 

[Fuller Pilch]

The side of the 80s were unbeaten in series at home for the whole decade as well as winning away in Australia, England and Sri Lanka (minnows then).

They won and drew home series against the great Windies and NZ were up with Pakistan as the Windies' biggest challenges (admittedly a very strong South Africa were banned for apartheid at the time).On results clearly the best.

In these comparisons, other worthy NZ sides were 1949 (0-0 in England with the likes of Donnelly, W Hadlee, Sutcliffe and young JR Reid), 1962 (2-2 in South Africa with John Reid scoring heavily) and 1972 (0-0 in the Windies when Turner scored 200s for fun).

 

[wpdavid]

The side of the 80s were unbeaten in series at home for the whole decade as well as winning away in Australia, England and Sri Lanka (minnows then).

They won and drew home series against the great Windies and NZ were up with Pakistan as the Windies' biggest challenges (admittedly a very strong South Africa were banned for apartheid at the time).On results clearly the best.

In these comparisons, other worthy NZ sides were 1949 (0-0 in England with the likes of Donnelly, W Hadlee, Sutcliffe and young JR Reid), 1962 (2-2 in South Africa with John Reid scoring heavily) and 1972 (0-0 in the Windies when Turner scored 200s for fun).

From memory, I don't think the 1949 tests in England were five day affairs; possibly only 3 days each. Maybe rain affected too.
The 1972 side's an interesting shout, even if the WI attack could be euphemistically described as transitional. Didn't NZ take a test off a very strong Australia side around then too? Maybe lacking some quality in the bowling though.

But I'm with you regarding the mid1980s side. The presence of a couple of ATGs lifts it beyond sides with a wider spread of very good players, imo.

 

[Zinzan]

The side of the 80s were unbeaten in series at home for the whole decade as well as winning away in Australia, England and Sri Lanka (minnows then).

They won and drew home series against the great Windies and NZ were up with Pakistan as the Windies' biggest challenges (admittedly a very strong South Africa were banned for apartheid at the time).On results clearly the best.

In these comparisons, other worthy NZ sides were 1949 (0-0 in England with the likes of Donnelly, W Hadlee, Sutcliffe and young JR Reid), 1962 (2-2 in South Africa with John Reid scoring heavily) and 1972 (0-0 in the Windies when Turner scored 200s for fun).

Of those 3 mentioned, the '49 one is easily the best. 0-0 for NZ in 4 Tests away in England at thyat time was no mean feat.


B Sutcliffe
VJ Scott
WA Hadlee (c)
WM Wallace
MP Donnelly
JR Reid
GO Rabone
FLH Mooney †
TB Burtt
HB Cave
J Cowie


4 World-class players of their era in Sutcliffe, Donnelly, Reid & Cowie.

 

[wpdavid]

Of those 3 mentioned, the '49 one is easily the best. 0-0 for NZ in 4 Tests away in England at thyat time was no mean feat.


B Sutcliffe
VJ Scott
WA Hadlee (c)
WM Wallace
MP Donnelly
JR Reid
GO Rabone
FLH Mooney †
TB Burtt
HB Cave
J Cowie


4 World-class players of their era in Sutcliffe, Donnelly, Reid & Cowie.

They certainly batted very well, albeit not against the finest attacks that England have ever assembled. Trevor Bailey opened the bowling in all four tests, for instance. But looking at the scorecards, I was right about the tests all being 3-day affairs. Less right about rain, which doesn't seem to have been a factor. That being said, a weaker batting line-up would still have lost those matches, so credit where due; NZ did score heavily heavily in all four matches. Less convinced about their bowling though. Cowie perhaps not what he had been by the time he was 37.

 

[Fuller Pilch]

Oops forgot Cowie. Yeah they were 3 day tests but they had crazily good over rates.

In 1972, the Windies didn't have their fearsome quicks but had the following top 7 in the first test:

Fredericks
Geoff (not Gordon) Greenidge (who?)
Rowe
Lloyd
Davis
Kallicharran
Sobers

 

[wpdavid]

Oops forgot Cowie. Yeah they were 3 day tests but they had crazily good over rates.

In 1972, the Windies didn't have their fearsome quicks but had the following top 7 in the first test:

Fredericks
Geoff (not Gordon) Greenidge (who?)
Rowe
Lloyd
Davis
Kallicharran
Sobers

Yeah, Sobers coming in at 7 is taking the piss really.
Geoff Greenidge was the last white cricketer to represent WI for ages - until some guy whose name escapes me in the early 2000s.
And to be fair to your guys, they were up against Lance Gibbs on a 4th innings pitch on more than one occasion in that series.


I rated that NZ side pretty highly. One of my earliest memories is the 1973 series when NZ almost chased down 430+ at Trent Bridge and were unable to take advantage of a huge first innings lead in the next test, at Lord's. 2-0 didn't really reflect how the series had played out. At the time, I'd have told you that Bev Congdon was batting in my World XI. But the bowling wasn't all that, I suppose.

 

[Red]

As great as the sum of their parts | Cricket | ESPNcricinfo


I'd argue that the England teams of the Hutton/May/Bailey/Bedser/Cowdrey/Trueman/Tyson/Compton era would be better than the Eng one mentioned here.

Not bad though

 

[jimmy101]

As great as the sum of their parts | Cricket | ESPNcricinfo


I'd argue that the England teams of the Hutton/May/Bailey/Bedser/Cowdrey/Trueman/Tyson/Compton era would be better than the Eng one mentioned here.

Not bad though

Oh yes, it'd be infinitely better, although I suspect Dobell might have been putting what was then the current England XI up against the others for reference. But it's still pretty silly for him to rate the 10-11 pommy side over Hutton's team, or Jardine's team for that matter.

 

[Fuller Pilch]

Brendan Nash

 

[wpdavid]

Brendan Nash

Thank you.

 

[Days of Grace]

Are you offering?

Ok, then.

30 December 1984 West Indies vs Australia at Sydney

CG Greenidge 770 (844)
DL Haynes 618 (785)
RB Richardson 482 (876)
HA Gomes 762 (773)
IVA Richards 743 (938)
CH Lloyd 783 (818)
PJL Dujon 703 (703)
MD Marshall 897(910)
MA Holding 826 (860)
J Garner 831 (890)
CA Walsh 257 (867)

AVERAGE 697 (842)

Peak player ratings in brackets. I challenge anyone to beat that team. Maybe you can on the ratings in a particular match, but not on peak ratings, surely? If there is an allrounder, just give them the rating for their best discipline at that time.

Clive Lloyd was actually the no.1 ranked batsman in the world heading into his final test.

 

[flibbertyjibber]

I don't think my team ever played together either, always at least 1 missing. Replace Gillespie with S Clark though and you get the 2006/07 Ashes side

That side was brilliant, add in they were wounded and wanted revenge for 2005 and it was a proper mauling.

 

[wpdavid]

Ok, then.

30 December 1984 West Indies vs Australia at Sydney

CG Greenidge 770 (844)
DL Haynes 618 (785)
RB Richardson 482 (876)
HA Gomes 762 (773)
IVA Richards 743 (938)
CH Lloyd 783 (818)
PJL Dujon 703 (703)
MD Marshall 897(910)
MA Holding 826 (860)
J Garner 831 (890)
CA Walsh 257 (867)

AVERAGE 697 (842)

Peak player ratings in brackets. I challenge anyone to beat that team. Maybe you can on the ratings in a particular match, but not on peak ratings, surely? If there is an allrounder, just give them the rating for their best discipline at that time.

Clive Lloyd was actually the no.1 ranked batsman in the world heading into his final test.

Thank you!

Astonishing that Lloyd was still ranked so highly at that stage of his career; not what I would have assumed at all. Holding's not a million miles from his peak either.
The other day, I was discussing the merits of this team vs the WI side that won the deciding test at Adelaide in the 1979/80 series. Richards would have had a much higher rating in 1980. Holding and Garner a bit higher, but not excessively so. Croft would have been much higher than Walsh, but I don't think Roberts would have matched Marshall's score. And Dujon probably outscored Murray. Kallicheran would probably have outscored the 1984 version of Richardson, but Gomes probably outscored Rowe. As for the openers, I reckon Haynes was higher in 1984 and Greenidge could go either way. I reckon the 1984 side might just have pinched it.

 

[Dendarii]

Ok, then.

30 December 1984 West Indies vs Australia at Sydney

CG Greenidge 770 (844)
DL Haynes 618 (785)
RB Richardson 482 (876)
HA Gomes 762 (773)
IVA Richards 743 (938)
CH Lloyd 783 (818)
PJL Dujon 703 (703)
MD Marshall 897(910)
MA Holding 826 (860)
J Garner 831 (890)
CA Walsh 257 (867)

AVERAGE 697 (842)

Peak player ratings in brackets. I challenge anyone to beat that team. Maybe you can on the ratings in a particular match, but not on peak ratings, surely? If there is an allrounder, just give them the rating for their best discipline at that time.

Clive Lloyd was actually the no.1 ranked batsman in the world heading into his final test.

This team comes close.

1st Test, India tour of South Africa at Cape Town, Jan 5-8 2018 | Match Summary | ESPNCricinfo

Dean Elgar 722 (784)
Aiden Markram 492 (759)
Hashim Amla 776 (907)
AB de Villiers 689 (935)
Faf du Plessis 711 (734)
Quinton de Kock 708 (802)
Vernon Philander 739 (912)
Keshav Maharaj 695 (695)
Kagiso Rabada 883 (902)
Dale Steyn 741 (909)
Morne Morkel 753 (800)

Average 719 (831)

While it doesn't quite beat that West Indies team on peak ratings, it still could due to it featuring current players. The total of the peak ratings is only 125 short of the West Indies, so it would take something like Maharaj's peak going closer to 800 and some improvements on the peaks of Elgar/Markram/De Kock to do it, but that's an entirely plausible turn of events.

 

[wpdavid]

Yup, the January 1980 WI side averaged 657.

A question though. Most of the 1980 side would have missed a couple of seasons of test cricket due to WCS involvement. How much would that have affected their ratings in January 1980?

 

[AndrewB]

I just ran a script (which may not be totally reliable, but the results seem plausible) to try to find the highest rated teams (summing both ratings for all 11 players for simplicity): the best for each country seem to be:

Australia: Cape Town, March 2002 (Langer, Hayden, Ponting, M Waugh, S Waugh, Martyn, Gilchrist, Warne, Lee, Gillespie, McGrath)
England: Oval, August 1958 (Richardson, Milton, Watson, May, Cowdrey, Bailey, Evans, Lock, Laker, Trueman, Statham)
West Indies: Oval, August 1984 (Greenidge, Haynes, Gomes, Richards, Dujon, Lloyd, Marshall, Baptiste, Harper, Holding, Garner)
South Africa: Cape Town, January 2000 (Kirsten, Gibbs, Kallis, Cullinan, Cronje, Rhodes, Klusener, Pollock, Boucher, Donald, Adams)
Pakistan: Melbourne, March 1979 (Majid Khan, Mohsin Khan, Zaheer Abbas, Asif Iqbal, Mushtaq Mohammad, Wasim Raja, Imran Khan, Sarfraz Nawaz, Wasim Bari, Sikander Bakht)
New Zealand: Lords, May 2004 (Richardson, Fleming, Astle, Styris, McMillan, Oram, Tuffey, Cairns, McCullum, Vettori, Martin)
India: Lahore, Jan 2006 (Sehwag, Dravid, Laxman, Tendulkar, Ganguly, Yuvraj, Dhoni, Pathan, Agarkar, Kumble, Harbhajan)
Sri Lanka: Colombo PSS, Sep 2005 (Jayasuriya, Atapattu, Sangakkara, Jayawardene, Samaraweera, Dilshan, Vaas, Herath, Muralitharan, Fernando, Malinga)
Bangladesh: Chittagong, Sep 2017 (Tamim Iqbal, Sounya Sarkar, Imrul Kayes, Mominul Haque, Shakib Al Hasan, Mushfiqur Rahim, Sabbir Rahman, Nasir Hossain, Mehedi Hasan, Taijul Islam, Mustafizur Rahman)
Zimbabwe: Delhi, Nov 2000 (G Flower, Rennie, Carlisle, Campbell, A Flower, Whittall, Streak, P Strang, Murphy, B Strang, Olonga)