BCCI to ask for ban on sledging

[Richard]

That brings up a very valid point and yet another reason why picking up on sledging is difficult; I personally have bowled balls where they've been wide long-hops which have been edged over slip but I've said "Oh, you idiot/tosser/[expletive]!" referring to me for bowling such a crap ball. Would I get in trouble because the umpire thought I aimed it at the batsman?

No-one's said for a second that anything would be remotely easy. Most of the (sensible) comments in this thread have been idealistic, rather than "this should be done".

I'm not sure a ban on abuse is realistic. But if it was possible it would be a fine thing.

 

[MoxPearl]

I don't see insulting your family and expecting not to get pummeled in the face something to get excited about.

What are you talking about ???

As the article says

"Shah said that any word which was offensive should not be allowed"

 

[Sanz]

What makes you think its purely a current thing?

Many fast bowlers have to get into 'character' to be effective. There has to be a nastiness that doesnt exist in everyday life. On a cricket field a quick has to push his body to the limits of pain and look to try and seriously injure the opposition given the opportunity with bouncers.

Its different from everyday life, a quick has to be willing to do intentional physical damage to a batman with bouncers. That nastiness and aggression cant be turned off at will and the occasional comment and snarl is often part of what is needed to become such a violent tool so different from how they are outside the game.

Not all quicks are the same. Some do do it quietly but throughout history a number of quick bowlers need to develop a different aggressive mind set to deal with the exertion, pain and the fact you could kill someone.

Fast bowlers' sledging hasn't really been a problem most of the time. It is the personal abuses thrown from the slips/close in fielders that has created most of the issues in recent times.

Besides Who really cares about Fast bowlers' needs ? Why should a batsman be subjected to personal/racial insults/abuse mainly because it helps a fast bowler bowl better ?

If someone wants to complain that a fast bowler calls them a "lucky ****er" after edging a ball through slips then they should be playing cricket with a tennis ball in the back garden with Mommy, Daddy and Aunt Rose keeping wicket.

And if a bowler needs to use personal insults/abuse to pump himself up then he should quit bowling and rather take up wrestling.

 

[Sanz]

Example?



Because these people are emotional, not automatons. People get happy, sad, pissed off, annoyed, angry, frustrated, ecstatic, etc. Especially on the field play at a reasonably high level. It's incredible that so many people expect cricketers to be so passionate about the game that they're told they shouldn't make a career choice by playing IPL and should only play for their country yet we should also ask cricketers to not show passion when it manifests itself negatively? Sure, go nuts when you take a wicket or score a hundred but keep your trap shut if something bad happens to you? Come on.

Take the good with the bad; cricket isn't just a metaphor for life for these people, it is their lives. Everyone gets angry/frustrated/etc.in real life but we're afforded the grace of being able to express it in private. Sure you could argue that cricketers should only do so in private too but in the heat of the moment, stuff happens, tensions are inflamed, stuff gets said. It's a highly competitive environment with quite vicious performance pressure and people snap. As Goughy said too, being a quick bowler is bloody painful and if some bloke gets a plumb LBW go his way after you've spent half-an-hour setting him up for the off-cutter, you're going to be upset.

Anyway, forgetting the ethical consideration, it's psychologically unhealthy to bottle stuff up and causes more violent reactions when your emotional bucket is overflows. Banning players from saying anything rids the environment of a tension relief valve; if players can say the odd word to each other, the chance of a huge blow-up is lessened. You watch; if sledging were to be outright banned, the tension on-field would increase markedly and we'll see a physically violent confrontation. We already see the same in real life.

 

[Top_Cat]

Well, it's clear who I need to ignore from now on. I explain my position coherently and the best you've got is rolleyes smilies? No need to waste any more of my time on anything else you write, then.

 

[Richard]

AWTA.
z

 

[Sanz]

Well, it's clear who I need to ignore from now on. I explain my position coherently and the best you've got is rolleyes smilies? No need to waste any more of my time on anything else you write, then.

Oh come on, you are defending sledging here and couldn't take a simple stare on an internet forum ? I haven't even shown my aggressive tone yet and you seem offended and leaving the contest ?

TBF, I was waiting for your reaction. It was a setup my friend. My apologies for offending you and I dont think I need to say anything. I have proved my point.

 

[Top_Cat]

Oh come on, you are defending sledging here and couldn't take a simple stare on an internet forum ? I haven't even shown my aggressive tone yet and you seem offended and leaving the contest ?

TBF, I was waiting for your reaction. It was a setup my friend. My apologies for offending you and I dont think I need to say anything. I have proved my point.

I'm not offended, I respect sharing of knowledge and effort. Your post wasn't a rebuttal of mine, it was a fart in its direction. If you don't put in effort, why should I? A debate requires reciprocation. I've done my bit.

 

[Sanz]

I'm not offended, I respect sharing of knowledge and effort. Your post wasn't a rebuttal of mine, it was a fart in its direction. If you don't put in effort, why should I?

Of course you do and I have not suggested otherwise. As I suggested my post was a simple trap and you fell right into it. A batsman goes out there in the middle to face the ball and not the verbal diarrhea or physical intimidation from the opposition.

It is ironic that you expect batsmen to cop that kind of behavior in the middle yet when you yourself are shown a harmless smiley you threaten to put me on Ignore.

A debate requires reciprocation. I've done my bit.

So does a cricket contest, it requires a fair battle between bat and ball. If a bowler isn't able to do his best bit by ball and has to resort to name calling and personal insults in order to break a batsman's concentration or to get the best out of himself then I consider that as unfair to the batsman.

Lastly, I have repeatedly said that I have no problem with sledging that is friendly or doesn't include racial/personal abuse. But it seems to me that current generation of cricketers have forgotten the art. Until they learn the real meaning of sledging, we are better off without it.

PS :- Please Feel free to put me on your ignore list, it doesn't affect me in anyway. I just couldn't care less.

 

[Anil]

Lastly, I have repeatedly said that I have no problem with sledging that is friendly or doesn't include racial/personal abuse. But it seems to me that current generation of cricketers have forgotten the art. Until they learn the real meaning of sledging, we are better off without it.

and what was this "art" that didn't cross the boundaries of abuse, remained friendly and yet got under the opponent's skin enough to affect a result? because that's what sledging is designed to do, to try and make your opponents feel small enough about themselves that they would get frustrated and lose focus...i don't really see how it can be done without a certain amount of abuse(and abuse doesn't necessarily mean just swear words) and i don't see how it can be termed friendly in any way...

 

[Fusion]

and what was this "art" that didn't cross the boundaries of abuse, remained friendly and yet got under the opponent's skin enough to affect a result? because that's what sledging is designed to do, to try and make your opponents feel small enough about themselves that they would get frustrated and lose focus...i don't really see how it can be done without a certain amount of abuse(and abuse doesn't necessarily mean just swear words) and i don't see how it can be termed friendly in any way...

While any talking or "sledging" is designed to get the opponent rattled and lose focus, it doesn't necessarily have to be vicious or personal. Here's an example that Sunil Gavaskar described which I believe to be perfectly ok type of "sledging":



Legendary batsmen Sunil Gavaskar has praised his contemporary Pakistani cricketer Javed Miandad for possessing a rare skill of unsettling the opposition by just "talking" and not having to resort to sledging.

Miandad had a "sharp" sense of humour and was one of those rare species of batsmen who "talked" to the bowlers, Gavaskar said while delivering the Colin Cowdrey lecture at the the Lord's, London on Tuesday.

The former India skipper said Miandad would do anything to get under the skin of the bowlers and work it to his advantage but it was restricted to good-humoured banter.

Gavaskar related an incident involving Miandad and Indian bowler Dilip Doshi which amuses him till date.

"In a Test match at Bangalore, Javed was batting against Dilip Doshi who was one of the hardest bowlers to hit. Javed had tried everything -- the drive, the cut, the sweep and even going down the pitch to the crafty left-arm spinner -- but he simply wasn't able to get him away.

"Suddenly in the middle of a fresh over, Javed started asking Dilip his room number," recalled Gavaskar.

"This went on every other ball and even when he was at the non-striker's end. After some time, Dilip, who was making a comeback to the side, and so was concentrating hard on his bowling, couldn't take it anymore and exasperatedly asked him why he wanted his room number - to which Javed replied 'because I want to hit you for a six in your room'.

"Now those who have been to Bangalore - and know how far the hotel is from the ground - know what an impossibility it was. Yet it worked. Dilip, anticipating Javed to give him the rush down the wicket, bowled it short, and Javed gleefully pulled it to the boundary and added for good measure that he was bowling from the wrong end, else he would make good on his promise."

 

[Sanz]

and what was this "art" that didn't cross the boundaries of abuse, remained friendly and yet got under the opponent's skin enough to affect a result? because that's what sledging is designed to do, to try and make your opponents feel small enough about themselves that they would get frustrated and lose focus...i don't really see how it can be done without a certain amount of abuse(and abuse doesn't necessarily mean just swear words) and i don't see how it can be termed friendly in any way...

It can be friendly. Here are some examples :-

Trueman to some Aussie batsman as he was trying to close the pavilion gate : "Don't bother son, you won't be out there long enough."

Miandad asking for Doshi's Hotel Room number.

Miandad calling Huges as 'Bus conductor' and Huges saying 'Ticket Please' after getting his wicket.

Recently Sangakkara sledging Pollock /

There are many more.

 

[MoxPearl]

"to which Javed replied 'because I want to hit you for a six in your room'."

 

[Top_Cat]

While any talking or "sledging" is designed to get the opponent rattled and lose focus, it doesn't necessarily have to be vicious or personal. Here's an example that Sunil Gavaskar described which I believe to be perfectly ok type of "sledging":

Legendary batsmen Sunil Gavaskar has praised his contemporary Pakistani cricketer Javed Miandad for possessing a rare skill of unsettling the opposition by just "talking" and not having to resort to sledging.

Miandad had a "sharp" sense of humour and was one of those rare species of batsmen who "talked" to the bowlers, Gavaskar said while delivering the Colin Cowdrey lecture at the the Lord's, London on Tuesday.

The former India skipper said Miandad would do anything to get under the skin of the bowlers and work it to his advantage but it was restricted to good-humoured banter.

Gavaskar related an incident involving Miandad and Indian bowler Dilip Doshi which amuses him till date.

"In a Test match at Bangalore, Javed was batting against Dilip Doshi who was one of the hardest bowlers to hit. Javed had tried everything -- the drive, the cut, the sweep and even going down the pitch to the crafty left-arm spinner -- but he simply wasn't able to get him away.

"Suddenly in the middle of a fresh over, Javed started asking Dilip his room number," recalled Gavaskar.

"This went on every other ball and even when he was at the non-striker's end. After some time, Dilip, who was making a comeback to the side, and so was concentrating hard on his bowling, couldn't take it anymore and exasperatedly asked him why he wanted his room number - to which Javed replied 'because I want to hit you for a six in your room'.

"Now those who have been to Bangalore - and know how far the hotel is from the ground - know what an impossibility it was. Yet it worked. Dilip, anticipating Javed to give him the rush down the wicket, bowled it short, and Javed gleefully pulled it to the boundary and added for good measure that he was bowling from the wrong end, else he would make good on his promise."

But isn't this just an example of what was talked about during the whole SCG affair, that one man's sledging is another man's playful banter? Sure, it was taken in good faith in this example but imagine if Javed had said the same thing to someone who was more homophobic? It would probably have blown-up and the player concerned might have been deeply offended by it. If one is going to argue that 'bastard' is offensive due to cultural reasons, than this one should logically fall under the same banner.

And, it's invalid to define what's acceptable by the response. Example; Viv and Merv's back-and-forth where Merv was staring at Viv, Viv responded with "Hey man, you wanna stare at me, I'll stare at you all day, man, it's my culture, man, it's my culture." or words to that effect. Viv was dismissed soon after and Merv responded with "This is my culture, man; f*** off!". Viv laughed it off and no more was thought of it. Does this make it okay? Of course not.

Cultural context makes the issue of sledging infinitely more complex to the point of being unable to be enforced effectively which is exactly what I've been saying all along. If 'bastard' is culturally insensitive, so would be the inference of homosexuality because there are people who would be offended by both. I personally am not offended in the least by either but I can accept there are people who will be.

 

[social]

While any talking or "sledging" is designed to get the opponent rattled and lose focus, it doesn't necessarily have to be vicious or personal. Here's an example that Sunil Gavaskar described which I believe to be perfectly ok type of "sledging":



Legendary batsmen Sunil Gavaskar has praised his contemporary Pakistani cricketer Javed Miandad for possessing a rare skill of unsettling the opposition by just "talking" and not having to resort to sledging.

Miandad had a "sharp" sense of humour and was one of those rare species of batsmen who "talked" to the bowlers, Gavaskar said while delivering the Colin Cowdrey lecture at the the Lord's, London on Tuesday.

The former India skipper said Miandad would do anything to get under the skin of the bowlers and work it to his advantage but it was restricted to good-humoured banter.

Gavaskar related an incident involving Miandad and Indian bowler Dilip Doshi which amuses him till date.

"In a Test match at Bangalore, Javed was batting against Dilip Doshi who was one of the hardest bowlers to hit. Javed had tried everything -- the drive, the cut, the sweep and even going down the pitch to the crafty left-arm spinner -- but he simply wasn't able to get him away.

"Suddenly in the middle of a fresh over, Javed started asking Dilip his room number," recalled Gavaskar.

"This went on every other ball and even when he was at the non-striker's end. After some time, Dilip, who was making a comeback to the side, and so was concentrating hard on his bowling, couldn't take it anymore and exasperatedly asked him why he wanted his room number - to which Javed replied 'because I want to hit you for a six in your room'.

"Now those who have been to Bangalore - and know how far the hotel is from the ground - know what an impossibility it was. Yet it worked. Dilip, anticipating Javed to give him the rush down the wicket, bowled it short, and Javed gleefully pulled it to the boundary and added for good measure that he was bowling from the wrong end, else he would make good on his promise."

If this is the kind of inane, endless babble that Miandad came out with, it's little wonder that the many members of the opposition couldnt stand him.

I had only one thought on sledging when I was playing - make it entertaining or shut the hell up.

Comments like "what's your room number" or "I'll bowl you a piano, see if you can play that" were embarassing to the sledger more than anything else

 

[Fusion]

But isn't this just an example of what was talked about during the whole SCG affair, that one man's sledging is another man's playful banter? Sure, it was taken in good faith in this example but imagine if Javed had said the same thing to someone who was more homophobic? It would probably have blown-up and the player concerned might have been deeply offended by it. If one is going to argue that 'bastard' is offensive due to cultural reasons, than this one should logically fall under the same banner.

Homophobic??? What am I missing here? I think you're reading too much into Javed's banter. He was simply stating that he would literally hit a Doshi delivery all the way to his hotel room. IMO, there was no abuse in it, nothing personal and hence this is the type of banter that should be ok. It's when you start going after someone's family/country/culture, or start using profanity that we move into the "abuse" category.

 

[Fusion]

If this is the kind of inane, endless babble that Miandad came out with, it's little wonder that the many members of the opposition couldnt stand him.

I had only one thought on sledging when I was playing - make it entertaining or shut the hell up.

Comments like "what's your room number" or "I'll bowl you a piano, see if you can play that" were embarassing to the sledger more than anything else

What's that? You can't stand a Pakistani player? What a shocker! The humor was not to your liking (though it apparently achieved its purpose), that's fair enough. That's not the point I was making. The point is that it was non-abusive, and a type of sledging that is acceptable IMO and should be allowed. As opposed to the in-your-face profanity laden tirades that happen so often these days.

 

[Top_Cat]

Homophobic??? What am I missing here? I think you're reading too much into Javed's banter. He was simply stating that he would literally hit a Doshi delivery all the way to his hotel room. IMO, there was no abuse in it, nothing personal and hence this is the type of banter that should be ok. It's when you start going after someone's family/country/culture, or start using profanity that we move into the "abuse" category.

Again, proves my point about misinterpretation causing offence. Someone on the receiving end of a person asking for their hotel room number and saying they wanted to 'hit you for 6 in your room' might take it as a euphemism for something ***ual and hence take offence to such overtones.

 

[Sanz]

If this is the kind of inane, endless babble that Miandad came out with, it's little wonder that the many members of the opposition couldnt stand him.

I had only one thought on sledging when I was playing - make it entertaining or shut the hell up.

Comments like "what's your room number" or "I'll bowl you a piano, see if you can play that" were embarassing to the sledger more than anything else

Let me guess, sledges lile 'Everytime I **** your wife she gives me biscuit' or 'In our culture we say **** off' or 'what does Brian Lara's dick taste like' etc are very entertaining sledges and define the high standards of sledging all over the world.


Ofcourse Javed should have picked those 'Maa Ki', 'Behen Ki' abuses and that would have been perfect way of sledging. Not to forget, by doing that he would have earned your respect.

 

[Sanz]

Again, proves my point about misinterpretation causing offence. Someone on the receiving end of a person asking for their hotel room number and saying they wanted to 'hit you for 6 in your room' might take it as a euphemism for something ***ual and hence take offence to such overtones.

Sure sure. You really are doing your bit in the argument and not clutching at straws.