Andrew Flintoffs career in doubt?

[Mermaidman]

I tried to search for this topic and found no results, I remember me posting when flintoff returned from his last ankle injury and I expressed my worries regarding the long term future wafor freddie, the thing that worries me is that he is a World-Class bowler but he could never play as a specialist batsman. He had spats where he got consecutive 50's and the odd 100 but my point is that if he did get fully fit again would he have the confidence to use his ankle to fully or will he be alot more within himself?.

 

[Richard]

I think most of us with much sense have been worried about Flintoff's long-term future ever since 2006\07 TBH.

The way I understand it, the most recent op is basically the exact same thing he had 4 months ago - IOW, any op can remove bone fragments, but they come back before he can even play any cricket, so before he's even played he already needs another op to do the exact same thing again.

It seems a pretty hopeless case to me TBH. If they were going to find something that sorted the problem for longer I presume they'd have found it by now.

Like the Wilkinson case, it's a very sad one.

 

[Goughy]

I did a long post on this quite a while ago, explaining how his action will constantly give ankle issues and how if he didnt change it (no easy thing) then he was destined to be crocked on and off for his entire career.

Shame that its going this way but entirely predictable.

 

[four_or_six]

Like the Wilkinson case, it's a very sad one.

Huh... Wilkinson? Bloke's just helped get us into the world cup final!

 

[Richard]

True that, and you never know - come 2011 Flintoff might just be doing the same.

Would you have thought we'd see today's Wilkinson performance 2 years ago though? 'Cos I wouldn't have.

 

[four_or_six]

True that, and you never know - come 2011 Flintoff might just be doing the same.

Would you have thought we'd see today's Wilkinson performance 2 years ago though? 'Cos I wouldn't have.

Yeah... cause everything I've heard about Wilkinson is how dedicated and intense and determined and single-minded he is.

I guess we're about to find out is Flintoff is the same. How much does he want to fight for it?

 

[Richard]

You can fight as much as you want, if your body doesn't possess the strength to match your mind there's not a lot you can do. Flintoff can't bowl properly with fragments of bone in his ankle. He needs to either a) hope someone finds a new way to stop them recurring that they haven't yet tried... in 3 attempts... or b) change something about his bowling-action to stop the problem recurring. Whether this is still possible to do, I honestly don't know - I'm not clued-up enough on the biology of the issue. But it seems to me that the latest lot of bone-fragments have appeared without him even really bowling much. It also seems they wouldn't present a problem to him if he was, say, sitting in front of a desk or tapping a whiteboard with a ruler. Or even holding a bat.

But he's not - he's running, a lot, and thudding his foot down on a bowling-crease. Which is not possible to do properly with his ankle in the condition that, it now seems to me, is almost impossible to get out of.

 

[four_or_six]

You can fight as much as you want, if your body doesn't possess the strength to match your mind there's not a lot you can do. Flintoff can't bowl properly with fragments of bone in his ankle. He needs to either a) hope someone finds a new way to stop them recurring that they haven't yet tried... in 3 attempts... or b) change something about his bowling-action to stop the problem recurring. Whether this is still possible to do, I honestly don't know - I'm not clued-up enough on the biology of the issue. But it seems to me that the latest lot of bone-fragments have appeared without him even really bowling much. It also seems they wouldn't present a problem to him if he was, say, sitting in front of a desk or tapping a whiteboard with a ruler. Or even holding a bat.

But he's not - he's running, a lot, and thudding his foot down on a bowling-crease. Which is not possible to do properly with his ankle in the condition that, it now seems to me, is almost impossible to get out of.

Then he has to change his action, or work his arse off at his batting and do something with that, or maybe there's something else he can do.

Like you said, you didn't think Wilkinson could do it. Flintoff has to give it everything, explore every option. Then if he still can't do it... fine his career is over. But not yet.

 

[Goughy]

I did a long post on this quite a while ago, explaining how his action will constantly give ankle issues and how if he didnt change it (no easy thing) then he was destined to be crocked on and off for his entire career.

Shame that its going this way but entirely predictable.

Here is the post I mentioned above.

Andrew Flintoff

For a longtime I have been bothered by Flintoff's action. He is a big strong boy and delivers the ball with a great deal of force.

The issue Ive had for quite a while is where his front foot points. In delivery, his front foot plants towards fine leg.

This causes a great deal of jarring and stress as it is pointing away from the direction the rest of his body is going in.

It is no surprise, to someone like myself, that he is suffering from long term left ankle problems.

The stresses on his ankle must be immense. The foot is planted and the rest of the body must come over and around that ankle.

A recipe of injury.

I would have made these observations a long time ago but there would have been many saying "Noone can criticise Freddy". The time is probably right for people to have an open mind and reflect clearly on matters.

Edit- Best example I can find online showing his left foot pointing away from the direction of the rest of his body

 

[Richard]

Then he has to change his action, or work his arse off at his batting and do something with that, or maybe there's something else he can do.

Like you said, you didn't think Wilkinson could do it. Flintoff has to give it everything, explore every option. Then if he still can't do it... fine his career is over. But not yet.

Meh. Just because someone can recover when all seems lost (maybe that might be an exaggeration on the Wilkinson case TBH) doesn't mean everyone can. I certainly don't ever see Flintoff becoming a specialist batsman good enough for Tests or ODIs, he just doesn't have the talent.

I hope he can still change his bowling action or, heck, maybe someone might even find some medical procedure that solves the problem. But it's not like the problem is with tendons or ligaments being constantly strained; bone fragments, to me, paints a deeper, more troubled, picture. Maybe this is just because I'm completely ignorant of the medics of the matter (which I am - for all I know a change in bowling-action could completely stop these fragments from fragmenting) and if so I'll find-out in due course.

 

[Mermaidman]

I remember that article very informative

 

[BoyBrumby]

The Wilkinson analogy is attractive, but ultimately worthless. Jonny has had a crippling (almost literally) run of injuries, but they've all been different ailments. Fred's problems are always with the same ankle.

I think it's time for Flintoff to go away and seriously try to remodel his action. Goughy points out the problems it causes him better than I could. Before his last abortive comeback AD also suggested he should try to modify his delivery position, but Fred dismissed his counsel, saying he was too old (at 29!) to consider changing. It does make one wonder how many more ops he'll need before he heeds this advice.

 

[Son Of Coco]

Then he has to change his action, or work his arse off at his batting and do something with that, or maybe there's something else he can do.

Like you said, you didn't think Wilkinson could do it. Flintoff has to give it everything, explore every option. Then if he still can't do it... fine his career is over. But not yet.

Like wicket-keeping or umpiring?

 

[grecian]

Like wicket-keeping or umpiring?

Hey, hes got a decent pair of hands, I think this is the way forward. Can't be any worse then the procession of numpties we have ATM.

Moores, get me Moores on the phone, now.

 

[silentstriker]

Here is the post I mentioned above.

Would it change his effectiveness in any way? We know that he is nowhere near the same caliber bowler without his speed. Would changing that part of his action negatively affect his speed?

 

[Craig]

I did a long post on this quite a while ago, explaining how his action will constantly give ankle issues and how if he didnt change it (no easy thing) then he was destined to be crocked on and off for his entire career.

Shame that its going this way but entirely predictable.

You know more then me on the subject so my question is why wasn't this spotted any earlier by coaches?

 

[Richard]

Would it change his effectiveness in any way? We know that he is nowhere near the same caliber bowler without his speed. Would changing that part of his action negatively affect his speed?

I can't see why a few degrees in the angle of an ankle would lose much if any speed TBH.

 

[Goughy]

You know more then me on the subject so my question is why wasn't this spotted any earlier by coaches?

It very well could have been.

For a coach, one thing that is terrifying is making changes to a guy that is doing well and messing him up.

If it was spotted, the logic would have been that he is doing great and to change something as significant as the placement of the left foot could mess everything up. Its a brave (or foolish) coach that does that.

The feet are more difficult to change than the left arm and the body, and changing something like this could take a season to get right. If he was playing competetive cricket, its hard for a coach to tell a successful bowler that a season will be lost for a change in their action that will not improve them as a bowler but will reduce injury in the long term. No young quick thinks about what will happen when they are 30, all they want is to bowl rapid today.

For all the criticism I have of Flintoffs action and how it leads to injury Im not convinced he should remodel. Its a tough thing to do.

Maybe look at having the left foot point down the track, but if he doesnt like it or if it feels too awkward Id drop the change.

 

[Goughy]

Would it change his effectiveness in any way? We know that he is nowhere near the same caliber bowler without his speed. Would changing that part of his action negatively affect his speed?

I can't see why a few degrees in the angle of an ankle would lose much if any speed TBH.

Im sure in a computer simulation there would be little to no loss of speed. However, in the real world an action must feel 100% natural and a bowler must have absolute confidence in what they are doing.

A change like that would definately lead to a loss of speed in the short term as it is a change from the natural to the unnatural and a bowler cant bowl their quickest if they are not completely relaxed and comfortable in their action.

 

[BoyBrumby]

Interesting stuff. I don't pretend to be any expert in actions or physiology, but it does seem as if Fred's ankle just can't take the strain of his current action. When an injury requires four ops it really does look chronic. Like most quicks I imagine the big fella is used to playing in a certain degree of discomfort, if not actual pain, and no-one has ever accused Fred of being a wuss, so I think it's fair to guess his ankle must be agony.

If he's unable to successfully remodel his action it looks as if it may be time to adjust our expectation of Flintoff's role; perhaps using him as a batting all-rounder rather than as a genuine bowler who can be expected to bowl his full allotment. It's obviously unfortunate that his batting seems to have regressed as far as it has, because there's no way he'd command a test batting spot just now and it's decidedly questionable in the shorter form too.