Andre Nel and sledging

[Son Of Coco]

I'm sorry, but that's not true. Unless it's somewhere along the lines of the tree falling in the forest and noone being there to see it. If competitive sport occurs and noone watches it, has it actually happened? Entertainment is one function of competitive sport at a high level, but it's not the only function.

You buffoon!

 

[Son Of Coco]

hahaha, hang on I'll just check. I have the overwhelming majority of cricket supporters numbers in my phone book.

As I said above, this is cultural and that's fine. Your point of view isn't 'the happy medium' that will appease all spectators though.

HATEMONGER!!

 

[Ikki]

Phew!

Looks like I'm the only one here. I'll take a breath before answering my own posts.

*Pats you on the back* Good job buddy.

 

[Son Of Coco]

 

[marc71178]

Until WSC, cricket pretty much was your standard 40K a year job, give or take.

Was it even that much?

I doubt that they received that much a year (even in dollars)

 

[Pedro Delgado]

Its a responsibility of a public figure to carry themselves with decorum. Or do you prefer the 'i dont have no responsibility' line of thought ?

Only politicians should be subject to this, as they are wont to making legislation pertaining to how we should behave. Professional sportsmen play professional sport. Their only responsibility is to their team, and the success or failure therein. Secondary, is entertainment for the crowd.

Social decorum as a gentleman isn't even on the list.

 

[Pedro Delgado]

The ironic fact is, i am being lambasted for the same stuff others are trying to defend in sportsmen - swearing unecessarily.
Like i said - sometimes you have to step over the fence to show the other side what it really is like.
Tell me why swearing here is not on but swearing on the pitch is.

Because "we" are not out in the middle playing sport, are we.

 

[Pedro Delgado]

What passes for sledging out there is mostly not acceptable stuff.
I find it interesting that you take such a strong stance against reducing the nastyness in the game.

And dont be so sure on the 'most people would agree' part....most people from the subcontinent find swearing ( unless said in a very joking fashion) to be highly inflammatory.

I can find you 20 Punjabi swearwords/insults in a matter of minutes and so could you, don't give me that. And they are used regularly in cricket matches toward opposition players, from the terraces.

You'll be telling me that suttee didn't exist next.

 

[benchmark00]

I wrote a couple of things on there a while back in the 'Reader's Entries' section (it's not actually called that, but whatever the equivalent is).

Are you a former champion greyhound owned by the Kerrigan family?

 

[honestbharani]

Because personal abuse and insults don't happen on the field 'almost all the time', and when it does become abusive and personal players generally get punished perhaps?

I think it's quite obvious that the difference here is in cultures. It seems that in the subcontinent 'heroes' and 'idols' are taken a lot more seriously than in other places, which is why there's such a difference of opinion.

At some point during the argument for no sledging at all I'm pretty sure someone mentioned the fact that other cultures have to be taken into account...and this is correct. Getting rid of it altogether doesn't do this however. There's been a crackdown in whats said on a field (the first of which was way back around 93/94) and personal abuse isn't tolerated. There's a rule that I assume attempts to cater to everyone as to what's allowable and what isn't. Every individual has their won interpretation of this and un fortunately for most on here there will never be a rule that suits each individual's desires. That's the way it is. I'm mostly happy with how it's going at the moment. The latest example - Nel- fronted the match committee. Others have too. That's it really as far as I'm concerned.

yeah, my whole point from the start has been that insults on a players' cricketing abilities and other such cricketing stuff is ok, as long as it doesn't go beyond a limit, but personal insults and abuses are just not on. And I would definitely like to see lesser swearing out on the cricket pitch.

Regarding the culture issue, yes, the "hero" and "idol" thing is a little different here than what it perhaps may be in Australia. There is a reason why Sachin is admired so much and that everytime his name is mentioned they always say "he is a perfect rolemodel".

 

[honestbharani]

Only politicians should be subject to this, as they are wont to making legislation pertaining to how we should behave. Professional sportsmen play professional sport. Their only responsibility is to their team, and the success or failure therein. Secondary, is entertainment for the crowd.

Social decorum as a gentleman isn't even on the list.

u mean they are not MEN? All men are supposed to behave in a certain way when they are in the public glare. I mean, how do you think it will look if you go up to a person you have almost never even met and tell him to "**** off" (see, I used the filter)? There are certain ways and rules in which everyone has to behave and people in high profile media glare have all the more reason to follow it strictly. BTW, aren't the guys playing the game gentlemen? It is not like we are expecting street thugs to behave responsibly. Most cricketers are generally reasonably well brought up.

 

[honestbharani]

I can find you 20 Punjabi swearwords/insults in a matter of minutes and so could you, don't give me that. And they are used regularly in cricket matches toward opposition players, from the terraces.

You'll be telling me that suttee didn't exist next.

But they are all mostly said when the battle is very intense or if things get too heated in the middle. There is a reason why the Indians have been amongst the better behaved cricketers over the years. You certainly won't see one of us (not even Harbhajan, yes) talk the way Nel has been doing so consistently. Things are looked at a bit differently here. I know that a couple of players got banned when I was playing school cricket for swearing at opposition batsmen during a game.

 

[Pedro Delgado]

u mean they are not MEN? All men are supposed to behave in a certain way when they are in the public glare. I mean, how do you think it will look if you go up to a person you have almost never even met and tell him to "**** off" (see, I used the filter)? There are certain ways and rules in which everyone has to behave and people in high profile media glare have all the more reason to follow it strictly. BTW, aren't the guys playing the game gentlemen? It is not like we are expecting street thugs to behave responsibly. Most cricketers are generally reasonably well brought up.

Those are your rules, not mine.

I behave decently because I am a gentleman, but I do not look down on others because they behave differently, that would make me a snob, and being a gentleman snobbery is abhorrent to me.

I have played cricket, and as a batsman have had abuse from the bowler, some days I wander off to square leg to gather myself, some days I say f-off you C. Depends on my mood. I expect to get it from some bowlers (usually quicks) but never have I not had a beer with one after the match, and never has the bowler not had one with me.

It's cricket. Always been the way. Always will be. The way it happens where you are is your way, I am not offended by it.

 

[Pedro Delgado]

But they are all mostly said when the battle is very intense or if things get too heated in the middle. There is a reason why the Indians have been amongst the better behaved cricketers over the years. You certainly won't see one of us (not even Harbhajan, yes) talk the way Nel has been doing so consistently. Things are looked at a bit differently here. I know that a couple of players got banned when I was playing school cricket for swearing at opposition batsmen during a game.

Fair enough. That's not how it is here and I'm sorry it upsets you, but that's life.

 

[honestbharani]

Those are your rules, not mine.

I behave decently because I am a gentleman, but I do not look down on others because they behave differently, that would make me a snob, and being a gentleman snobbery is abhorrent to me.

I have played cricket, and as a batsman have had abuse from the bowler, some days I wander off to square leg to gather myself, some days I say f-off you C. Depends on my mood. I expect to get it from some bowlers (usually quicks) but never have I not had a beer with one after the match, and never has the bowler not had one with me.

It's cricket. Always been the way. Always will be. The way it happens where you are is your way, I am not offended by it.

See, as long as the abuse isn't personal, it doesn't bother me. When it gets personal, that is where the line has to be drawn. Cricket is an INTERNATIONAL sport, played by countries with different cultures and all those cultures need to be respected. Like I said, references to family are not taken lightly here in INdia and I personally wouldn't mind whacking a guy if he calls my mom names. Again, that is how things are and YOU and the rest of the cricketing world has to learn to live with it.

 

[C_C]

hahaha, hang on I'll just check. I have the overwhelming majority of cricket supporters numbers in my phone book.

As I said above, this is cultural and that's fine. Your point of view isn't 'the happy medium' that will appease all spectators though.

Nothing appeases all spectators- which is why majority rules. Not absolute majority.

 

[Pedro Delgado]

Fair enough. That's not how it is here and I'm sorry it upsets you, but that's life.

Actually it's probably worse in SA and Aus for local sledging and I may be doing my country a disservice, but Langeveldt and the Aus boys would know more than I in that regard.

 

[C_C]

Competitive sport exists with or without a crowd, competitiveness is not defined by the number of people that turn up. Professional sport on the other hand is generally expected to draw some form of following from the general public...I'm not sure you're qualified to comment on what it means to individual players though. It's a hell of a lot of work to put in to simply be classed as 'entertainment'. I think you'd find that without individual goals to achieve and milestones to pass most people would simply fade out of the game due to their own lack of interest. This happens in competitive sport from amateur level right through to the pros. As soon as a sportsman sees him or herself as merely entertainment I'd suspect their days are numbered.

I have already explained this - if they wish to remain on public television and expect to make millions of bucks that the public pays them, the public most definately has a say in conducting the game.
Your argument is the typical extremist unionist style argument where the union must have absolute power.
And as i said before, the fundamental objective of sports in the society is to entertain. Not to improve or do anything profound to do with society.
I am sure whacking a ball comes near the top of the list of greatest human accomplishments.

 

[Pedro Delgado]

See, as long as the abuse isn't personal, it doesn't bother me. When it gets personal, that is where the line has to be drawn. Cricket is an INTERNATIONAL sport, played by countries with different cultures and all those cultures need to be respected. Like I said, references to family are not taken lightly here in INdia and I personally wouldn't mind whacking a guy if he calls my mom names. Again, that is how things are and YOU and the rest of the cricketing world has to learn to live with it.

If someone called my mum a name I would laugh at them or walk to square leg. It's just sledging. Generally I do a "Strauss" and laugh anyway, if I'm in a bad mood I'll look back and stare at them (I'm a stocky lad from Normanton, and don't scare easy) and they usually shut it.

 

[C_C]

Only politicians should be subject to this, as they are wont to making legislation pertaining to how we should behave. Professional sportsmen play professional sport. Their only responsibility is to their team, and the success or failure therein. Secondary, is entertainment for the crowd.

Social decorum as a gentleman isn't even on the list.

I see it differently.
Whether you like it or not, if people are gonna emulate you and be influenced by you, you have a responsibility. The entire reason sportsmen are on tv and in the middle of a multi-million dollar stadium that the public paid for is to entertain the public.
If they have a problem with that, i wouldnt begrudge them finding a village hill somewhere and playing cricket there.
But if cricketers wish to make money off of the public and expect public support- both economically and morally - they have to toe the public line.