Andre Nel and sledging

[Pedro Delgado]

My fundamental focus is to promote less verbal diarrea in the middle of a cricket pitch.

I think therein lies the problem. Most people do not care two hoots about the odd interaction, and some even find it entertaining (as I do).

It's not like the Nazi's have just invaded Poland or anything.

 

[C_C]

I managed to dally around and find a quote. Sorry to all, we're getting REALLY side-tracked here, but for the sake of request:



http://www.cricketweb.net/forum/showpost.php?p=697063&postcount=1570



http://www.cricketweb.net/forum/showpost.php?p=697476&postcount=1594

LOL

I would've thought that you'd have better comprehension of english than that.
In the first case- i am openly stating that what MY experience is, rather than what the entire OZ society is.
In the second case, i am illustrating the difference between the two statements, which is extremely evident from the post and the post it is addressing.
Perhaps Grammar is not your strong suit ?I recommend studying Wren and Martin book of Grammer for a few years.Perhaps then you might learn the difference between a 'statement' and an 'illustration'.

 

[C_C]

I think therein lies the problem. Most people do not care two hoots about the odd interaction, and some even find it entertaining (as I do).

It's not like the Nazi's have just invaded Poland or anything.

I think you'll find that many, if not most, find it as highly unwanted behaviour.
I certainly dont look forward to hearing '**** you mother ****er' being hurled at someone like Lara for example.
And exactly- its not like the Nazis just invaded Poland. Its just a game - no need to blow yer lid for the sake of just a game.

 

[C_C]

Prove it. Prove older players didn't sledge. Prove that since 30 years ago or even 20 we've become worse. On the contrary more people commentating on earlier era's are saying not much has changed. I'm baffled at this hopeless direction you tend to be running into.

It is YOU who must prove that the older players sledged with highly inflammatory and derogatory language as commonly as it is today.
And having talked to older players from the past, i know for a FACT that cussing out the opposition was a rare occurance for most non-australian teams since 1970, the last 10 or so years exempted.

It demonstrated one such example. An example of which will surely have backlash from the ICC if not the domestic government. So, what else is there to cry about?

As usual, you miss the point. My entire point is, if one can be threatened bodily harm with a ball as a mental breakdown tactic, one can also be threatened bodily harm with a non-cricketing object.
Nowhere in cricket does it say that it is okay to willfully cause harm to the batsman and that threatening harm to a batsman is okay.

As you can see with years of cricketing passed, it is what has always been, competitive. If the cricketers on the field grew into sides with truely virtuous beings why would they suddenly flip and become uncouth?

Because of people like you. The apologists who insist that abusing people( note - since you are so happy to toss around legalease, it is a legal offence to swear at people in a public setting in many nations) is fine and all hunky dory. The apologists like you give the impression that 'it is normal to go around behaving like sorry tossers and even making racist taunts gets you a proverbial slap on the wrist'. Each successive generation that grows up wanting to be crickters gradually grow up under this 'it is normal to be a moron' attitude that you and the apologists throw out and thus push the boundary as time passes.

If you assume the worst, then I do feel sorry for you. You must have lived an awful life.

I dont assume
I know for a fact that this world is extremely screwed up and you are hopelessly naive if you think otherwise. It doesnt cause me any happiness nor does it cause me any unhappiness-for fact is fact whether you like it or not. My sense of happiness or unhappiness comes from within- not relying on external stimuli. I know it takes a bit of cojones to do that but i do believe that one needs experience to make comments about this world.
I also know, having taken psychology for a year at University, that it is a common human trait to say 'everything is fine' and lull themselves into a sense of righteousness and fill themselves with pride.

 

[marc71178]

In the last two-three years, we have the Darren Lehmann incident.
The McGrath-Sarwan incident.
Warney screaming his head off at the umpire.
Open media wars between RSA and AUS players with calls of 'fans please act boorishly towards these guys' and publicly questioning each other's characters back and forth.

Not exactly the norm 15-20 years ago or before.

Looks like this is the equivalent of Richard's Harmison.

No matter what the subject, he just can't resist a dig, no matter how relevant it is.

 

[marc71178]

I managed to dally around and find a quote. Sorry to all, we're getting REALLY side-tracked here, but for the sake of request:



http://www.cricketweb.net/forum/showpost.php?p=697063&postcount=1570



http://www.cricketweb.net/forum/showpost.php?p=697476&postcount=1594

Cheers for saving everyone else a job.

 

[C_C]

Looks like this is the equivalent of Richard's Harmison.

No matter what the subject, he just can't resist a dig, no matter how relevant it is.

If its relevant, its not a 'dig'. Its a legitimate comment.

PS: I find it ironic, given your latest post on this thread, that you lack certain basic grammatical skills in English despite being an Englishman.

 

[luckyeddie]

If its relevant, its not a 'dig'. Its a legitimate comment.

PS: I find it ironic, given your latest post on this thread, that you lack certain basic grammatical skills in English despite being an Englishman.

What's wrong with the phrase "Cheers for saving everyone else a job"?

The use of the word 'cheers' in the context it has been used here implies thanks, and is perfectly cromulent use - especially as Marc comes from Coventry. He would normally use it in the phrase "I see Coventry stuffed Derby again, Ed. Cheers for the three points as usual", and I would sulk (as usual).

Also, the use of the word 'job' is only an offensive term in Liverpool.

 

[Sanz]

 

[Tom Halsey]

What's wrong with the phrase "Cheers for saving everyone else a job"?

The use of the word 'cheers' in the context it has been used here implies thanks, and is perfectly cromulent use - especially as Marc comes from Coventry. He would normally use it in the phrase "I see Coventry stuffed Derby again, Ed. Cheers for the three points as usual", and I would sulk (as usual).

Also, the use of the word 'job' is only an offensive term in Liverpool.

 

[Goughy]

Wow, I cant beleive this discussion is still going on.

Anyway I have general questions I would like to ask CW citizens-

How do we define sledging with regards to language?

Can you only sledge in English? Is it only sledging if the opponent understands? Is there a difference if Nel goes at it using curse words in English or Afrikaans?

I have been cursed out in so many languages (some I understood and others I didnt) does it make a difference?

Is the bowler only a bad man if he knows the other player understands what he is saying? If the batsman and umpires do not understand how can it be policed?

If you say horrible things about a mans wife and kids does it matter if it is in Spanish, Afrikaans, Urdu, Zulu, Hindi, Welsh, Tagolag or sign language etc?

I mean there have been many occasions where I have played against Indian players who have given me or a teammate a verbal attack only to be lucky enough to have an umpire who speaks the language and can reprimand.

Is it more cowardly to say something in a language that cannot be understood than to say it directly to the man?

Is it a disadvantage to only speak English in the world of sledging as others may have an alternative language in which they can vent without getting into trouble?

All valid questions IMO with no real easy answers

 

[luckyeddie]

Can you only sledge in English?

Yes.

Everyone else bobsleighs.

 

[Tom Halsey]

Can you only sledge in English?

I imagine sledging in Urdu or something would be just as effective - simply because you don't know what they're on about and can work yourself into a state.

@ Eddie's post

 

[Smudge]

Further to the Chris Cairns alleged sledge, it's good to see he's getting behind a cause. There are some absolute idiots on the road. And I certainly feel for the train drivers, who are often utterly powerless in what they can do:

Former New Zealand cricketer, Chris Cairns, says he hopes a new initiative aimed at reducing accidents at level crossings will help change the attitudes of motorists.

There were 32 level crossing accidents last year and numerous other incidents involving trespassers on railway tracks. Nine people died.

The new scheme in the Central and Tasman Police Districts will see police officers travel on board trains at random, looking for motorists who break the law at level crossings.

They will have a police car as back up to deal with any dangerous driving.

Cairns, whose sister died in a level crossing crash in 1993, says motorists need to take more care at level crossings.

Toll Rail hopes the initiative will be adopted nationwide.

Group general manager, Gary Taylor, says the police presence will help reduce the number of accidents, and also give train drivers assurance that their concerns are being taken seriously.

The scheme was devised by Palmerston North police Inspector Neil Wynne, whose team has carried out trials.

http://www.radionz.co.nz/news/latest/200604052134/1c338d24

 

[Son Of Coco]

Are you a former champion greyhound owned by the Kerrigan family?

haha, I am. That's why I disappeared for a while, I had to get my paws adapted for typing.

 

[Son Of Coco]

yeah, my whole point from the start has been that insults on a players' cricketing abilities and other such cricketing stuff is ok, as long as it doesn't go beyond a limit, but personal insults and abuses are just not on. And I would definitely like to see lesser swearing out on the cricket pitch.

Regarding the culture issue, yes, the "hero" and "idol" thing is a little different here than what it perhaps may be in Australia. There is a reason why Sachin is admired so much and that everytime his name is mentioned they always say "he is a perfect rolemodel".

I think we are actually saying the same thing almost

 

[Son Of Coco]

u mean they are not MEN? All men are supposed to behave in a certain way when they are in the public glare. I mean, how do you think it will look if you go up to a person you have almost never even met and tell him to "**** off" (see, I used the filter)? There are certain ways and rules in which everyone has to behave and people in high profile media glare have all the more reason to follow it strictly. BTW, aren't the guys playing the game gentlemen? It is not like we are expecting street thugs to behave responsibly. Most cricketers are generally reasonably well brought up.

The only reasonable expectation I really have of any sportspeople or celebrities is that they'll generally act like the rest of the population. They're a sub-section of society and as a result you'd expect them to act as such, with a wide variety of personality types. It's not really possible to like all of them, or for them to all act in a manner you think is appropriate. There's going to be a few clowns in every bunch.

 

[Son Of Coco]

I have already explained this - if they wish to remain on public television and expect to make millions of bucks that the public pays them, the public most definately has a say in conducting the game.
Your argument is the typical extremist unionist style argument where the union must have absolute power.
And as i said before, the fundamental objective of sports in the society is to entertain. Not to improve or do anything profound to do with society.
I am sure whacking a ball comes near the top of the list of greatest human accomplishments.

I don't think I said it did.

I'll get back to you after my meeting with the boys from the union.

I have a feeling you take things to the extremes in a show of bluster and bravado whilst trying to 'win' whatever argument it is you're involved in. I'm happy to be proven wrong.

 

[Son Of Coco]

As someone said, all it takes for decay to set in is failing to care about it.
The fundamental goal of human existance is to try and get along with everything around you. Not 'every man for his own' crappola. We are a social species and as such, individuality has to take a backseat on social conditions.
You are free to behave how you want......inside your house. But outside of it, you should atleast observe minimum decency standards.

And yes, i do look down on people who behave uncouthly. Just as i look down on people who go around hacking people to pieces. Different levels but same malevolent perspective that is common between the two.

ohhh, you mean literally, not just with words.

 

[honestbharani]

LOL. I love it how people here are speaking for the whole of society. Some think too highly of themselves it seems.

weren't you speaking about stuff like "Murali's action is chucking by the cricketing definition of chucking" or something of that sort? And weren't you saying that you were speaking for the whole cricketing community back then, seeing how you took it upon yourself to "define" something called "cricketing chucking" or something like that.