Andre Nel and sledging

[C_C]

Those are your rules, not mine.

I behave decently because I am a gentleman, but I do not look down on others because they behave differently, that would make me a snob, and being a gentleman snobbery is abhorrent to me.

I have played cricket, and as a batsman have had abuse from the bowler, some days I wander off to square leg to gather myself, some days I say f-off you C. Depends on my mood. I expect to get it from some bowlers (usually quicks) but never have I not had a beer with one after the match, and never has the bowler not had one with me.

It's cricket. Always been the way. Always will be. The way it happens where you are is your way, I am not offended by it.

As someone said, all it takes for decay to set in is failing to care about it.
The fundamental goal of human existance is to try and get along with everything around you. Not 'every man for his own' crappola. We are a social species and as such, individuality has to take a backseat on social conditions.
You are free to behave how you want......inside your house. But outside of it, you should atleast observe minimum decency standards.

And yes, i do look down on people who behave uncouthly. Just as i look down on people who go around hacking people to pieces. Different levels but same malevolent perspective that is common between the two.

 

[C_C]

I can find you 20 Punjabi swearwords/insults in a matter of minutes and so could you, don't give me that. And they are used regularly in cricket matches toward opposition players, from the terraces.

You'll be telling me that suttee didn't exist next.

I would like you to go around asking how many subcontinental players over the years ( barring perhaps the last 10 years) have gone around cussing out the opposition in the middle of the pitch for international matches.
If you can find more than half a dozen in the preceeding 50 years, you'd do well. Crowd abuse is not the discussion here - the discussion is sledging done by sportsmen. If you wish to address crowd behaviour, it would warrant a thread about that.

I dont give a toss about club cricket. But anything thats in the media spotlight- you have an obligation to behave. It may be my definition ( which isnt really - the bulk of subcontinental people agree with me on this and they represent the majority of opinions in cricket) but it is perfectly fine with me to take a stance that discourages nastyness in the middle out there and encourages classy behaviour.

 

[Pedro Delgado]

I would like you to go around asking how many subcontinental players over the years ( barring perhaps the last 10 years) have gone around cussing out the opposition in the middle of the pitch for international matches.
If you can find more than half a dozen in the preceeding 50 years, you'd do well. Crowd abuse is not the discussion here - the discussion is sledging done by sportsmen. If you wish to address crowd behaviour, it would warrant a thread about that.

I dont give a toss about club cricket. But anything thats in the media spotlight- you have an obligation to behave. It may be my definition ( which isnt really - the bulk of subcontinental people agree with me on this and they represent the majority of opinions in cricket) but it is perfectly fine with me to take a stance that discourages nastyness in the middle out there and encourages classy behaviour.

I could equally say the same about English teams (though untill recently we haven't had much to shout about on the field anyway). SA, Aus and Pak do seem the worst offenders. Nevertheless I remain unaffected by it, a few words here-and-there is nothing to get worked up about in my view.

 

[Ikki]

LOL. I love it how people here are speaking for the whole of society. Some think too highly of themselves it seems.

 

[C_C]

LOL. I love it how people here are speaking for the whole of society. Some think too highly of themselves it seems.

Or perhaps some have seen far more than you have and have a pulse on the society.
That above comment of yours would invalidate the fields of social commentary and sociology.

 

[C_C]

Nevertheless I remain unaffected by it, a few words here-and-there is nothing to get worked up about in my view.

I've never gotten worked up in a sporting situation- and i've played competetive sports before.
However, that doesnt mean i like the abuse hurled out there and my ability to ignore it should, in no shape or form, be construed as my acceptance of that kind of behaviour.

 

[Ikki]

I could equally say the same about English teams (though untill recently we haven't had much to shout about on the field anyway). SA, Aus and Pak do seem the worst offenders. Nevertheless I remain unaffected by it, a few words here-and-there is nothing to get worked up about in my view.

Anything that is too extreme will be dealt with anyway. I don't see why we have to sit here arguing about social prerogatives and speculating. If it's as bad as some people(C_C) are making it out to be, it would be nice to see the trend in general decline in mannerisms amongst cricketers that we should be so alarmed about. In my opinion, this really is an issue that we're REALLY blowing hot air into.

 

[Ikki]

Or perhaps some have seen far more than you have and have a pulse on the society.
That above comment of yours would invalidate the fields of social commentary and sociology.

With the whoppers you give:

"All 50+ Aussies are racist"

"sledging will follow continuity into murder"

"I represent all people of the subcontinent"

I don't think I'm the one in danger of losing the societal pulse.

 

[Ikki]

I've never gotten worked up in a sporting situation- and i've played competetive sports before.
However, that doesnt mean i like the abuse hurled out there and my ability to ignore it should, in no shape or form, be construed as my acceptance of that kind of behaviour.

Your reaction would have something to do with your character however...CHARACTER...what a novel word.

 

[C_C]

With the whoppers you give:

"All 50+ Aussies are racist"

"sledging will follow continuity into murder"

"I represent all people of the subcontinent"

I don't think I'm the one in danger of losing the societal pulse.

If you quote me, quote me accurately. The above is unadulterated libel.

I challenge you to find any of those quotes you attribute to me in any of my posts .

For one, i said most aussies over 50 *I* have encountered are invariably racist.
And i said that the only difference between telling someone to 'f-off' and killing them is the volume - the intensity of the endavour. It is both the same stuff - malicious self centered behaviour.
And for two, i never said i represent all the people from the subcontinent. Infact, i categorically said that the prevailing idea of maintaing social decorum in a public stage is an overall subcontinental slant but it doesnt represent every single one of them.

 

[C_C]

Anything that is too extreme will be dealt with anyway. I don't see why we have to sit here arguing about social prerogatives and speculating. If it's as bad as some people(C_C) are making it out to be, it would be nice to see the trend in general decline in mannerisms amongst cricketers that we should be so alarmed about. In my opinion, this really is an issue that we're REALLY blowing hot air into.

In the last two-three years, we have the Darren Lehmann incident.
The McGrath-Sarwan incident.
Warney screaming his head off at the umpire.
Open media wars between RSA and AUS players with calls of 'fans please act boorishly towards these guys' and publicly questioning each other's characters back and forth.

Not exactly the norm 15-20 years ago or before.

 

[Ikki]

If you quote me, quote me accurately. The above is unadulterated libel.

I challenge you to find any of those quotes you attribute to me in any of my posts barring the last one.

For one, i said most aussies over 50 *I* have encountered are invariably racist.
And i said that the only difference between telling someone to 'f-off' and killing them is the volume - the intensity of the endavour. It is both the same stuff - malicious self centered behaviour.
And for two, i never said i represent all the people from the subcontinent. Infact, i categorically said that the prevailing idea of maintaing social decorum in a public stage is an overall subcontinental slant but it doesnt represent every single one of them.

The quotes are pretty much close to word for word. I remember a certain Warne V. Murali thread getting locked and closed because of such drivel. Point remains, you're far from any representation of any majority. Yes, you may be on one such point but your reasonings are utter crap. Look where this thread has gone because of such polarised thesis. In order to prove a point look where the argument has travelled. This happens in every bloody thread you participate in.

 

[Pedro Delgado]

I've never gotten worked up in a sporting situation- and i've played competetive sports before.
However, that doesnt mean i like the abuse hurled out there and my ability to ignore it should, in no shape or form, be construed as my acceptance of that kind of behaviour.

You see, AFAIC their behaviour is quite normal, unless they're being racist, whereupon the hardest punishment on offer (or higher if rules are too lenient) should be enforced.

Surely it's as simple as this:

A minority of cricketers sledge profusely and use very blue language
A minority of stupid people try to emulate these men by sledging, using blue language.

Then they (and the non-stupid too) grow up and realise it doesn't really matter in the great scheme of things.

 

[C_C]

The quotes are pretty much close to word for word. I remember a certain Warne V. Murali thread getting locked and closed because of such drivel. Point remains, you're far from any representation of any majority. Yes, you may be on one such point, but your reasonings, utter crap. Look where this thread has gone because of such polarised thesis. In order to prove a point look where the points have travelled. This happens in every bloody thread you participate in.

False.
The quotes are your liberal slant to it. As i said, you quoting me as saying 'all aussies over 50 are racists' is comprehensively incorrect and libellious. And i challenge you to quote me-from anywhere on the web- that attributes the comment 'all aussies over 50 are racists' to me.

And as far as my contributions - i dont give a rat's hiney about political correctness. Despite calls for 'crap reasoning' you are yet to prove any of my points as false on a logical basis.

 

[C_C]

You see, as AFAIC their behaviour is quite normal, unless they're being racist, whereupon the hardest punishment on offer (or higher if rules are too lenient) should be enforced.

Surely it's as simple as this:

A minority of cricketers sledge profusely and use very blue language
A minority of stupid people try to emulate these men by sledging, using blue language.

Then they (and the non-stupid too) grow up and realise it doesn't really matter in the great scheme of things.

Look- all these are arbitary.
My fundamental focus is to promote less verbal diarrea in the middle of a cricket pitch.
You draw the line at racism.
I draw the line at any uncouth behaviour.
There is no reason why a racist comment is automatically worse than slating someone's mom or wife or children.

 

[Ikki]

False.
The quotes are your liberal slant to it. As i said, you quoting me as saying 'all aussies over 50 are racists' is comprehensively incorrect and libellious.

And as far as my contributions - i dont give a rat's hiney about political correctness. Despite calls for 'crap reasoning' you are yet to prove any of my points as false on a logical basis.

Um, how do I get it across to you that sledging (the kind we're talking about) will not result in murder? Just because you say in Sharjah it isn't a crime to threaten, what emphasis does that have on the rest of the bloody world that does have laws regarding it?

Let me break it down for you...

There are smarter people on these boards than you and I. You don't need to go to extremes to prove you have a point. Everyone can theorise such happenings for themselves. Get to common-sense so you can sound less extreme. Yes, if we let our society degrade itself to the point where a murder can happen in cricket. Use common-sense. Once we live in that kind of society cricket won't be the main worry on your mind, or even mine.

So you get offended about some things a few players have said. Great, go write a letter to whomever it concerns. The players that are affected will deal with it accordingly, there is no need for you and I to whinge about it. As long as everybody is responsible for themselves, all will be well. Take a deep breath and live faithful in the hope that most of the World is good.

 

[C_C]

Um, how do I get it across to you that sledging (the kind we're talking about) will not result in murder?

You dont. Simply because the logical progression of the trend is towards more and more hostile behaviour in the middle. I am sure Lala Amarnath and Don Bradman didnt go around hurling various cusswords at each other in the middle.

Just because you say in Sharjah it isn't a crime to threaten, what emphasis does that have on the rest of the bloody world that does have laws regarding it?

Simply to demonstrate, that the so-called rule of 'not threatening a player with personal harm' is just as arbitary as anything else and not an automatic hard and fast rule that you tend to think it is.

The players that are affected will deal with it accordingly, there is no need for you and I to whinge about it.

There is.
We the public pay to watch these sportsmen do their jobs- of which uncouth behaviour most definately isnt one and which is offensive to most people with decent upbringing.

Take a deep breath and live faithful in the hope that most of the World is good.

I have no reason to assume that, despite how much psychological comfort that assumption might provide.

PS: I am waiting for you to either retract your relevant statement or show evidence to support your claim that i said 'all australians over 50 are racists'.

 

[Pedro Delgado]

Look- all these are arbitary.
My fundamental focus is to promote less verbal diarrea in the middle of a cricket pitch.
You draw the line at racism.
I draw the line at any uncouth behaviour.
There is no reason why a racist comment is automatically worse than slating someone's mom or wife or children.

Is there any evidence to suggest this happens frequently? If so point me the way.

We all draw the line somewhere unless you have a very thick skin.

Degrading somebody because of their race/colour is detestable, nobody should ever have to put up with that, and I'd smack them. Calling my children they'll get a smack too. Calling my mum is laughable really. One is banned anyway, the other well, you'd have to be pretty stupid to call somebody's kid on the cricket field as the repercussions would be three-fold (jokes like "how are my kids" don't count by the way, I assume you mean something more serious).

 

[Ikki]

You dont. Simply because the logical progression of the trend is towards more and more hostile behaviour in the middle. I am sure Lala Amarnath and Don Bradman didnt go around hurling various cusswords at each other in the middle.

Prove it. Prove older players didn't sledge. Prove that since 30 years ago or even 20 we've become worse. On the contrary more people commentating on earlier era's are saying not much has changed. I'm baffled at this hopeless direction you tend to be running into.

Simply to demonstrate, that the so-called rule of 'not threatening a player with personal harm' is just as arbitary as anything else and not an automatic hard and fast rule that you tend to think it is.

It demonstrated one such example. An example of which will surely have backlash from the ICC if not the domestic government. So, what else is there to cry about?

There is.
We the public pay to watch these sportsmen do their jobs- of which uncouth behaviour most definately isnt one and which is offensive to most people with decent upbringing.

As you can see with years of cricketing passed, it is what has always been, competitive. If the cricketers on the field grew into sides with truely virtuous beings why would they suddenly flip and become uncouth? I think you're giving past generations a bit too much credit, with little evidence. As I've said in another thread, cricket nowadays is about drama. Actually most of the world is that too. If there is no geniune concern, papers will make some by misquoting players and heating rivalries where it will become apparent.

I have no reason to assume that, despite how much psychological comfort that assumption might provide.

If you assume the worst, then I do feel sorry for you. You must have lived an awful life.

 

[Ikki]

I managed to dally around and find a quote. Sorry to all, we're getting REALLY side-tracked here, but for the sake of request:

It doesnt take a genius to figure out that not every single Aussie beyond the age of 50 is a racist- i made a notation that my experience is such and social fits the bill ( from what he potrays here, from my perspective) quite accurately.

http://www.cricketweb.net/forum/showpost.php?p=697063&postcount=1570

1. All Australians over 50 are racist. You fit the bill
2. Almost all Aussies I've met over 50 are racist. You fit the bill.

http://www.cricketweb.net/forum/showpost.php?p=697476&postcount=1594