Andre Nel and sledging

[Ikki]

I know where Bollitieri camp is. Next time you run into Xavier Malisse, a Bollitieri camp product, ask him about U-17 in Dubai. He was 16 then.
And no, to sledge the opposition is NOT tolerated in tennis.
And i know whats the line between sledging and abusing...which is why i said i have no problem with Viv-Dilley incident but i do have a problem with swearing and acting like a hooligan on the field.
Like i said - start handing out bans for half a dozen games for explitives and uncouth behaviour and see how long it 'lasts'.

Hahaha, Xavier Malisse trained with my cousin for over 3 years. They're best friends. Next time he visits my cousin and I'm present I'll surely ask.

 

[C_C]

Hahaha, Xavier Malisse trained with my cousin for over 3 years. They're best friends. Next time he visits my cousin and I'm present I'll surely ask.

Good.
Maybe then you will shut up with the hearsays and confusing between fact and your idea of it ( such as verbally abusing the opposition in a tennis match and the repurcussions for it).

 

[Ikki]

Which part of 'UN security council meeting' sounded like Aussie or Chinese parliament to you ?

Cricket is two opposing bodies. I'm hard pressed to believe such a distinction exists in the UN security council meeting. Hence I referred to another political arena, which is probably more apt. Get it?

 

[Pedro Delgado]

What they do outside the field is secondary. What they do ON field is primary,because thats when millions of eyes are on them.
And yes, i expect these perfectly fallible men to display decorum.
WHen i watch the UN security council convening, i dont expect to hear explitives flying around or shoes being hurled at each other either.
If those perfectly fallible men can maintain decorum over issues that are FAR HIGHER in stakes, so can dime-a-dozen sportsmen.

Being a romantic myself I admire your sentiments, but you're coming across a little naive. What they have done on the field for years is only now available to us because of stump-mic, et al.

Blame new media.

Your ideal of the noble game has been shattered, and it's something you'll have to get used to I'm afraid.

 

[Ikki]

Good.
Maybe then you will shut up with the hearsays and confusing between fact and your idea of it ( such as verbally abusing the opposition in a tennis match and the repurcussions for it).

What is your name? I'll ask him. I think he'll need more reminder than U-17 Dubai.

 

[C_C]

Being a romantic myself I admire your sentiments, but you're coming across a little naive. What they have done on the field for years is only now available to us because of stump-mic, et al.

Blame new media.

Your ideal of the noble game has been shattered, and it's something you'll have to get used to I'm afraid.

I never considered cricket a noble game in the first place.
And stump mics were present since 1992 world cup on regular basis, with it seeing sporadic use since 1988. Didnt exactly catch Viv or Marshall or Haynes cussing out other players.
And i am pretty sure 'what does Brian Lara's **** tastes like' is the type of comment thats wasnt very commonly used in cricket before.

 

[C_C]

Cricket is two opposing bodies. I'm hard pressed to believe such a distinction exists in the UN security council meeting. Hence I referred to another political arena, which is probably more apt. Get it?

Err the UN security council is a meeting of several opposing bodies.
If they can maintain decorum over issues such as nuking a country, a buncha people specialising in whacking a ball with a wooden stick most definately can.

 

[C_C]

What is your name? I'll ask him. I think he'll need more reminder than U-17 Dubai.

Just tell him Dubai juniors...when he was 16 ( or 17....he was either close to his 17th birthday or just past it) and remind him 6-2 6-3(not in his favour. against him that is).
He will know. And if he doesnt, i can remind him the rest.
I am not extremely inclined to give out my full details on a public messageboard.

 

[Ikki]

Just tell him Dubai juniors...when he was 16 ( or 17....he was either close to his 17th birthday or just past it) and remind him 6-2 6-3(not in his favour. against him that is).
He will know. And if he doesnt, i can remind him the rest.
I am not extremely inclined to give out my full details on a public messageboard.

Your first name? Is that a lot?

 

[C_C]

Your first name? Is that a lot?

Joy. First names hardly matter in juniors and i am fairly certain that he is less likely to recognise a name than the scoreline. Tennis players tend to remember the scoreline they've been whalloped by far better than a no-name faceless juniors dime-a-dozen player you played once in your amatuer days.

 

[Ikki]

Err the UN security council is a meeting of several opposing bodies.
If they can maintain decorum over issues such as nuking a country, a buncha people specialising in whacking a ball with a wooden stick most definately can.

LOL. Mate, I'm not going to contest every little thing we digress into. The point was made and holds true. Whether not in one place but in another of similar distinction is almost irrelevant. It exists, and nothing in this world is of perfect virtue.

In regards cricket, my last words today: It is in this competitive nature that players will cling to a blade of grass if need be to win. Sledging is about the response to, rather than the effect in. It brings out the distinctions in personalities between the players. Whether one can retaliate positively or negatively. It adds spice. It doesn't do much harm else. I think you're taking it much too far and are too sensitive about it. Which is why I think Chess is such a great sport for these kind of people.

 

[C_C]

The point was made and holds true. Whether not in one place but in another of similar distinction is almost irrelevant. It exists, and nothing in this world is of perfect virtue.

For every example of uncouthness and hooliganism you can bring and try to justify its presence as 'normal and natural', i can provide a counter example of players and situations without such cesspool like behaviour.
Please go find out how many times Pele sledged or yelled at the opposition despite him getting manhandled and subject to racist taunts almost every single time he played in europe and schooled them. Or how many times you see Tendulkar saying uncouth things (and this cannot be excused away with stump mics and stuff - practically the entire career of tendulkar has coincided with stump mic era). You may consider hooliganism as perfectly natural. I dont.

t is in this competitive nature that players will cling to a blade of grass if need be to win

Well i am sure then, by that justification ( will do anything if need be to win), next time a team plays in Peshawar, all Afridi should do is remind the opposition that he is an Afridi, Peshawar is HIS stomping ground and there are open gun markets less than 10 miles from the stadium.
I am sure that would be perfectly acceptable 'mental degradation'. Or if anything is acceptable when it comes to winning, maybe the Indian team should have a word or two with the visiting team's cook with the phrase 'millions of dollars' thrown in somewhere. You are drawing a totally arbitary line and justifying it as it is simply because it is common practice to be a hooligan. Perhaps the best solution would be to completely cripple the financing of sports and reduce it to amatuer levels as it was originally so. Sportsmen forget the fundamental nexus of sporting philosophy - their JOB is to entertain the spectators primarily. Winning is secondary. Uncouthness is not entertaining. Nothing like a ban from half a dozen tests to remind them of that fact.

It adds spice.

Eating spice is far more enjoyable and healthier than trying to cook up spice in the wrong places.
I dont consider Warne sceaming at Dar or Afridi yelling 'behnchod' or McGrath acting like a hooligan to be very spicy at all.

Tennis is a perfect example of a highly competetive sport where opposition players hardly exchange a word, nomatter how high the stakes are. Cricket can learn a lot from that.

 

[Pedro Delgado]

I never considered cricket a noble game in the first place.
And stump mics were present since 1992 world cup on regular basis, with it seeing sporadic use since 1988. Didnt exactly catch Viv or Marshall or Haynes cussing out other players.
And i am pretty sure 'what does Brian Lara's **** tastes like' is the type of comment thats wasnt very commonly used in cricket before.

The types of insult may have changed, and I must say I prefer the wittier ones myself (questioning ones technique and the like, and I have no problem with vernacular, being English we practically invented decent swearing) nevertheless it's been around for longer than you and I have been on the planet, and will continue once we've left.

We differ drastically on the merits of sportsmen being role-models for children, no "stranger" should ever have it thrust upon them in my view, it should be a family thing, ergo my argument rests now, though I must add my children, once they're born, will be brought up decently but with a healthy regard for swear words

 

[FaaipDeOiad]

No, i implied that if 'mental disintegration' is the objective, ie, to mentally affect a player, i am sure a threat about decapitation with the ball is much less effective than the threat of strafing a guy with an automatic rifle after the match.
Mental disintegration, right ?

The difference is that sledging is inevitably tied to the actual game itself, while shooting someone isn't. I'd suggest you have a read of someone like Chappell or Waugh talking about sledging, because they give plenty of specific examples, and most sledging isn't simply abuse, it's pointed comments tied to the game itself. For example when Cullinan came out to bat against Warne at 2 for whatever, you can bet that Healy or Waugh or someone would have said something like "we've got them three down now, boys". That's sledging, and it's mental disintegration of a sort, but it doesn't involve swearing or racial abuse.

Keep in mind also that the phrase "mental disintegration" was taken out of context a bit when it was tied to Waugh. The phrase belongs to Border, and he used it when he talked about batting on for an extra session against England in an Ashes test when it wasn't necessary to tire them out and make sure they had a ridiculously huge total to face when they came out to bat. That's mental disintegration just as much as making a batsman doubt his ability to play Warne.

 

[Tom Halsey]

Err no. Football as in soccer. Not stupid versions of handball.
And no, its nothing close to what its like in cricket for most of the world.

I'm sorry but intimidating, arguing with officials and all is far worse in football than in cricket.

There are always petty arguments going on in football, and players arguing with referees.

 

[C_C]

The types of insult may have changed, and I must say I prefer the wittier ones myself (questioning ones technique and the like, and I have no problem with vernacular, being English we practically invented decent swearing) nevertheless it's been around for longer than you and I have been on the planet, and will continue once we've left.

We differ drastically on the merits of sportsmen being role-models for children, no "stranger" should ever have it thrust upon them in my view, it should be a family thing, ergo my argument rests now, though I must add my children, once they're born, will be brought up decently but with a healthy regard for swear words

Well i dont believe in role models at all. But the fact is, kids are impressionable and sports personnel hog their attention. Its just how it is and they have the responsibility as adults to act like adults.
And i dont mind the witty responses either. In my view, that is what enriches the game. Uncouth swearing and denigrating remarks do not and that is what sledging has come to over the years.

 

[Pedro Delgado]

Tennis is a perfect example of a highly competetive sport where opposition players hardly exchange a word, nomatter how high the stakes are.

Ille Nastase accepted

After Miloslav Mecir and Boris, my favourite player.

 

[C_C]

I'm sorry but intimidating, arguing with officials and all is far worse in football than in cricket.

There are always petty arguments going on in football, and players arguing with referees.

I dont mind arguments.
But soccer arguments are NOT filled with uncouth language.
The banter towards refs are of the ' well if you actually had legs instead of twigs and could run, you'd have seen that foul' type....acceptable IMO.

 

[C_C]

The difference is that sledging is inevitably tied to the actual game itself, while shooting someone isn't. I

No one said anything about actually shooting someone.
Sledging with explitives and derogatory remarks is threatening. So is the idea of shooting someone else.
Why should implications of 'you better get out now or you wont live to see the day' be unacceptable but yelling insults and threatening to decapitate a tailender with bouncer barrages is okay ? Both are threats and according to the psychopathic 'win at any costs' mentality, it is also perfectly justified.

For example when Cullinan came out to bat against Warne at 2 for whatever, you can bet that Healy or Waugh or someone would have said something like "we've got them three down now, boys". That's sledging, and it's mental disintegration of a sort, but it doesn't involve swearing or racial abuse.

I repeat ( yet again)- i have no problem with sledging as long as it does not involve uncouth or derogatory remarks.

 

[FaaipDeOiad]

I dont mind arguments.
But soccer arguments are NOT filled with uncouth language.
The banter towards refs are of the ' well if you actually had legs instead of twigs and could run, you'd have seen that foul' type....acceptable IMO.

Eh? So it's okay to question the credibility of an official, but not to swear at an opposition player? That's just ridiculous.

As far as I'm concerned, cricketers should be punished for dissenting against the umpire, racially or physically abusing the opposition, but not for making pointed comments to undermine their concentration/confidence or attempting to physically intimidate them through short-pitched bowling or anything like that. It's all a legitimate part of the sport.