Andre Nel and sledging

[Tom Halsey]

But soccer arguments are NOT filled with uncouth language.

Most football players' vocabulary consists of 70% swear words for a start.

Since there are no on-field mics in football, I'm not sure how you're so certain.

I should add that occasionally you pick up the odd faint "****ing hell".

 

[C_C]

Ille Nastase accepted

After Miloslav Mecir and Boris, my favourite player.

I see your Nasty Nastase and raise you Bjorn Borg.

 

[C_C]

For example when Cullinan came out to bat against Warne at 2 for whatever, you can bet that Healy or Waugh or someone would have said something like "we've got them three down now, boys". That's sledging, and it's mental disintegration of a sort, but it doesn't involve swearing or racial abuse.

Question their ability as much as you want. Thats perfectly acceptable.
Brining in bedroom exploits, family, culture, etc. is not and explitives most definately are not.
Sledging today is NOT the same sledging of the 80s. And anyone who says they are exactly the same in content is nothing more than a boldfaced liar.

 

[luckyeddie]

I dont mind arguments.
But soccer arguments are NOT filled with uncouth language.
The banter towards refs are of the ' well if you actually had legs instead of twigs and could run, you'd have seen that foul' type....acceptable IMO.

I beg your pardon, but as someone who has been going to footy in England on a week-in-week-out basis for the last 40 years, I can tell you that the majority of footballers in this country only know about 16 words - and the only ones that aren't four letters long have 'I-N-G' on the end.

 

[C_C]

Most football players' vocabulary consists of 70% swear words for a start.

Since there are no on-field mics in football, I'm not sure how you're so certain.

I should add that occasionally you pick up the odd faint "****ing hell".

Oh yes, i've heard the occasional '****ing hell' comments....eddie made a comment about that too....so lemme clarify a bit. In footy, you have remarkable uncouthness over the last 10 years or so. Much much more than before. And even then, most of the comments arnt directed at anyone in particular.
I have no problem with a bowler looking skyward and yelling '****ing hell !!! aaaaaaaaah!' to vent his frustration. I do have a problem with them directing it at another player.
Huge difference. 90% of cricketing uncouthness is directed at a particular player. 90% of soccer uncouthness is directed at no one in particular.

 

[FaaipDeOiad]

No one said anything about actually shooting someone.
Sledging with explitives and derogatory remarks is threatening. So is the idea of shooting someone else.
Why should implications of 'you better get out now or you wont live to see the day' be unacceptable but yelling insults and threatening to decapitate a tailender with bouncer barrages is okay ? Both are threats and according to the psychopathic 'win at any costs' mentality, it is also perfectly justified.

Oh come on. Attempting to hurt an opposition batsman with a bouncer is part of cricket - commenting on it is also. Shooting someone isn't, and threatening to shoot someone after the game if they don't get out is not only completly inappropriate, it's illegal.

I repeat ( yet again)- i have no problem with sledging as long as it does not involve uncouth or derogatory remarks.

And what I'm saying is that that sort of thing is what sledging is. Calling a batsman a **** isn't going to help you that much on the field, and not that many players are going to look to do it. Commenting to the batsman or other nearby fielders about the ability of the batsman to create self-doubt, trying to create pressure by telling them the state of the game, suggesting that they can't play a particular bowler and so on... that's what most sledging is.

Another comment heard recently through stump mics involving the Australians was when Warne beat Justin Kemp's bat at the WACA in December, he wandered down the wicket and called out "it's called a leg-break, Daryll!". Again, it's sledging, but it doesn't involve swearing or anything else. In fact, I'm hard pressed to think of an example off the top of my head that really does involve much in the way of abuse.

There's one that's mentioned in Steve Waugh's book (incidentally, it's from the 1989 Ashes, not today), where Merv Hughes beat Robin Smith a couple of times and said something like "how about I send down a ****ing piano on a length and we'll see if you can play that, you pommie poof?". That's one example, but I don't really see how that sort of thing ruins the game. Like I said before, take out racial abuse and you've got nothing to worry about. I've got no problem with Viv calling McDemott a ****ing coward either.

 

[Pedro Delgado]

I see your Nasty Nastase and raise you Bjorn Borg.

I did appreciate the robotic beauty of Borg, but prefered the untamed genius of McEnroe.

 

[C_C]

Oh come on. Attempting to hurt an opposition batsman with a bouncer is part of cricket - commenting on it is also. Shooting someone isn't, and threatening to shoot someone after the game if they don't get out is not only complete inappropriate, it's illegal.

actually, attempting to hurt an opposition player is NOT a part of cricket.
it is explicitly said so.
And threatening to shoot someone may be illegal. but it is no different than Courtney Walsh threatening to make Devon Malcolm a head shorter.
both are actions intending to do permanent physical damage.
Simply because one involves a gun and the other a ball doesnt make it any worse.
In Canada, you have the Todd Bertuzzi case, where he was charged(and rightly so) with assault for body-checking a player and breaking his neck ( the move itself was illegal due to a technicality - if big Bert had done it just 2 seconds earlier, it would be your standard 'bodyslam into the corner' move).

And what I'm saying is that that sort of thing is what sledging is.

No it isnt. The overwhelming bulk of sledging today in cricket is tied to race, ethnicity, etc. and filled with liberal dose of uncouth and derogatory language. I have a problem with derogatory language being tossed around liberally around the cricketing field. I do have a problem with Warne screaming at the umpire.
Or Afridi calling tendulkar a sister humper. Or McGrath enquiring about the taste of Brian Lara's ***** from Sarwan. Start handing out 6-10 test bans for those kinda behaviour and i am pretty sure it would be exterminated.
People push the boundary when they have 'win at all costs' mentality and if a stance is not taken, cricket will slide into the uncouthness of Baseball, where its a common sight to see a slugger charge a pitcher for conking him and has to be restrained.
Simply because its a slippery slope when you have 'win at all costs' mentality.

 

[C_C]

I did appreciate the robotic beauty of Borg, but prefered the untaimed genius of McEnroe.

Bleh. i preffered Borg ( perhaps because if i had a bit more Borg in me - ie, control - i would've made it as a pro tennis player).....i personally find it harder to do something consistently than bowl a total jaffa outta the blue or do a fine angle outta the blue like Johhny Mac. But i brought up Borg because that guy was not only more successful than Nastase, he never engaged in uncouth behaviour either.

 

[Tom Halsey]

I have no problem with a bowler looking skyward and yelling '****ing hell !!! aaaaaaaaah!' to vent his frustration. I do have a problem with them directing it at another player.

Up until now I thought your problem with swearing was that kids would hear it. But apparenty you have no problem with that.

You have stated you have no problem with sledging, just not swearing.

Then, what is the difference between "you're a lucky git" and "you're a ****ing lucky git"? It creates no extra meaning.

 

[Sanz]

Couple of years ago an american colleague of mine casually called another colleague (Indian, not me though ) 'Son of a *****', he nearly got fired.

How many of you wont be offended if your boss came upto you and told 'You mother effing son of bi***, I want this done be close of business tomorrow' ?

 

[Tom Halsey]

Couple of years ago an american colleague of mine casually called another colleague (Indian, not me though ) 'Son of a *****', he nearly got fired.

How many of you wont be offended if your boss came upto you and told 'You mother effing son of bi***, I want this done be close of business tomorrow' ?

Of course if you're calling someone a son of a ***** that's offensive.

But you're calling someone a lucky git whether there's a "****ing" in front of it or not. And that's sledging.

 

[Sanz]

Is 'Choo Choo' offensive or how about Sangakkara asking Ashwell Prince, 'Why dont your teammates eat with you Ashley ? ' ?

I think both are pretty offensive, even though these have no swear word. This is where ICC must step in and take action.

 

[Tom Halsey]

Is 'Choo Choo' offensive or how about Sangakkara asking Ashwell Prince, 'Why dont your teammates eat with you Ashley ? ' ?

I think both are pretty offensive, even though these have no swear word. This is where ICC must step in and take action.

I'd agree with that. And this is where I disagree with C_C that swear word = offensive and vice-versa.

Generally I don't have much problem with sledging as a whole, unless it becomes personal and offensive. It should stay relevant to the match.

 

[C_C]

Up until now I thought your problem with swearing was that kids would hear it. But apparenty you have no problem with that.

You have stated you have no problem with sledging, just not swearing.

Then, what is the difference between "you're a lucky git" and "you're a ****ing lucky git"? It creates no extra meaning.

Okay. let me be more precise : I have a very strong dislike of swearing directed at players.
I have a moderate dislike of swearing without targetting.
And no, it creates no extra meaning by saying ' you are a ****ing mother****ing ****sucking lucky git'...just creates a whole lotta uncouthness.
I can get an intent across without using offensive terminology. Surely, thats not very hard.

 

[C_C]

I'd agree with that. And this is where I disagree with C_C that swear word = offensive and vice-versa.

Generally I don't have much problem with sledging as a whole, unless it becomes personal and offensive. It should stay relevant to the match.

No. I do consider adding '****ing' in front of 'lucky git' to be far more offensive. So do many people.
Swear words should be banned from cricketing fields...at the very least swear words directed at someone specifically.

 

[Tom Halsey]

No. I do consider adding '****ing' in front of 'lucky git' to be far more offensive. So do many people.

I really don't see why - you're still calling him a "lucky git", just adding a random, pointless swear word in front of it.

It may be pointless, and needless, but IMO not more offensive.

 

[C_C]

I really don't see why - you're still calling him a "lucky git", just adding a random, pointless swear word in front of it.

It may be pointless, and needless, but IMO not more offensive.

Offensive = derogatory. ****ing = derogatory in this case.
I find saying 'you ****ing lucky git' to be more offensive than ' you lucky git'. Just like you'd find ' Australians in general have an aggressive attitude towards sports' to be far less offensive than '****ing australians. they are so ****ing aggressive towards sports'.

 

[Tom Halsey]

Offensive = derogatory. ****ing = derogatory in this case.

Lucky git = derogatory = offensive.

By your standards, "lucky git" is offensive, too.

Also, why is "****ing" derogatory in this case if it adds no meaning to the sentence?

 

[Smudge]

Is 'Choo Choo' offensive or how about Sangakkara asking Ashwell Prince, 'Why dont your teammates eat with you Ashley ? ' ?

I think both are pretty offensive, even though these have no swear word. This is where ICC must step in and take action.

"Choo Choo" never happened.