Andre Nel and sledging

[honestbharani]

Can we stop skipping the filter guys? Seriously, when the asterisks come out, most people can work out what you are writing anyways.

sorry, I was just giving an example. And it seems to have caused some amusement in the thread and has lightened the mood, so is it THAT bad?

 

[honestbharani]

I apologise (for the record I'm damn near anarchist stage these days, so disilushioned with government and the myth that is "democracy") but these views can come across as a typical Daily Mail headline at times.

Anyway we shall agree to disagree. As I said before one cannot expect men to be perfect on the field, at home or anywhere, and if parents allow their kids to use celebrities as role-models they need a stern talking to; perhaps we're both idealists but with a differing agenda.

I am NOT expecting them to be perfect. I am just expecting them to appreciate their responsibilities a bit more. I know a few things happen at the heat of the moment and I am not asking them to punished for THAT. Generally, sledging happens when there is no need for it. Let us take the incident when one English bowler hit Hayden on the head when throwing the ball back at him.. What went on after that was all "heat of the moment". I am not asking for Hayden to be punished for that or anything. But when a new batsman walks in and you call him by certain choice words (esp. when the abuses have nothing to do with the game in progress or the guy's abilities in the sport)... That stuff, IMO, should be banned.

 

[honestbharani]

Why then are they assumed to be stupid enough to be puppets of a sports person?

Because generally the sports people are richer, more famous, grab more headlines.... In short, they live, what would seem to be, THE GOOD LIFE. And when you are out there playing the sport that you love, it is quite natural that you look to emulate what your heroes do in that sport. I tried to have the exact same back lift as Lara when I was 12 and 13 and JUST getting into serious cricket. One of the reasons I always walked whenever I nicked was because of the Lara influence, again. Sorry, kids DO regard their favourite sports people as heroes and look to emulate them on the field of play. Hence, they should behave with a little more responsibility. Do you have any idea how many kids drink the soft drink endorsed by Sachin? HOw many kids drink the beverage endorsed by Sachin? How many kids talk about a certain bike as "Sachin's bike"? Look around, mate... Instances of young people emulating their heroes on the field of play are so many that I cannot even be bothered trying to give you a sample list.

 

[Swervy]

I personally have absolutely no problems with giving verbals out there on the crcket pitch, it add to the tension, builds pressure and is (and always has been) a part of a tough sport. I dont think anyone really would like to see 22 emotionless robots , cricket is about emotion etc, and giving a bit of lip is about releasing emotion and trying to effect the emotions of the opponents.

Interestingly(or not),The NFL have just recently voted to outright ban and post touchdown celebrations, using the reason that the players are role models, and these celebrations influence children into doing the same and is seen as a taunt to the opposition players etc...the No Fun League indeed

 

[Sanz]

I personally have absolutely no problems with giving verbals out there on the crcket pitch, it add to the tension, builds pressure and is (and always has been) a part of a tough sport. I dont think anyone really would like to see 22 emotionless robots , cricket is about emotion etc, and giving a bit of lip is about releasing emotion and trying to effect the emotions of the opponents.

So players like Rahul Dravid, Sachin Tendulkar, Brian Lara, Saeed anwar, Wasim Akram etc etc are emotionless robots, aren't they ? I dont understand how using abusive language against your fellow cricketers can be considered entertaining.

Interestingly(or not),The NFL have just recently voted to outright ban and post touchdown celebrations, using the reason that the players are role models, and these celebrations influence children into doing the same and is seen as a taunt to the opposition players etc...the No Fun League indeed

They didn't outright ban postmatch celebration, they have said that you can do it but 'Stay on your feet'. And yes the kids were getting influenced by it. TBF we dont watch games because a Chad Johnson is going to propose a cheerleader after celebrating a touchdown, or TO is going to mock Ray Lewis. Football watching isn't any less interesting.

 

[Sanz]

I'm sorry I can't hear the sound on that one.

Well, then go rent the video, and watch the game, you will hear the sound as well, if it is so hard to believe. You can clearly hear Slater's preachings through the stump mike.

 

[Sanz]

Err. So because you know that Ian Chappell and Rod Marsh sledge, you assume it to be a fact that Rod Marsh made a joke about being the father of Ian Botham's children, even though Marsh denies it and nobody who was actually involved in the match says that he did say it?

If Botham for example claimed that Marsh said it, your skepticism towards Marsh might be perfectly valid. As it is, you're just blaming him for something you have no reason to believe ever even happened.

Has Botham denied it ?

 

[FaaipDeOiad]

Has Botham denied it ?

As far as I know he's never even been asked. The point is that there is no actual reason to believe that Marsh isn't telling the truth. The sledge in question is just a rumour, and if Marsh says he didn't say it, and nobody who would know actually disagrees with him, why would you disbelieve him?

Chances are someone has made up the sledge at some point and stuck a couple of player's names on it and told it as gospel, just like the things which get posted in the cricket humour forum all the time with the wrong names on them and so on. It could have involved completely different people, or it might never have happened at all.

The difference between the Marsh/Botham thing and sledge stories which have actual validity is that in others, like say the one about Warne calling Irani's mother a whore, the player in question has actually said that it did occur, so if Warne denied it you'd have valid reason to disbelieve him.

 

[Sanz]

Okay I get your point and tbf I dont have a problem with that comment, and If someone said it to me, I myself may not get offended either, I dont have problem with anything that is suppsoed to be humorous even if it involves some swear words. I am perfectly okay as long as it remains at the humour level.

My problem starts when players like Mcgrath, Warne, Sangakkara, Nel start using abusive, insulting language because they are frustrated in the name of mental dis-integration and the aussie team under steve waugh were the biggest culprit.

 

[Goughy]

That was the singular biggest case of biassed umpiring.
I am not justifying the barging into the ump or kicking down the stumps stuff but when you repeatedly get called for noball AFTER the stumps are rattled or the catch is settling in Dujon's gloves, its rather pushing it.
Besides, that was one off, not the continuous stream of verbal diarrea like it is today.

The barging of the umpire happened after being called for a no-ball. It was the most disgraceful thing I have ever seen.
Given the fact his back foot clearly cut the return crease it was clearly a no-ball. The simple fact was that the bias was perceived rather than actual and it was an attempt to justify behaviour that could be the worst ever seen on a cricket field.

 

[Sanz]

like say the one about Warne calling Irani's mother a whore, the player in question has actually said that it did occur, so if Warne denied it you'd have valid reason to disbelieve him.

Actually Irani later denied that Warne said that about his mother. This is what I have been trying to say, something like this did happen and later on it was denied for reasons best known to the involved parties.

Ronnie Irani's state from Essex website :-

http://www.essexcricket.org.uk/2004/archive_0024.htm

"I can categorically state that Shane did not say anything inappropriate about my mother to me, and any reference to this by me was in response to a comment from a spectator. "

 

[Langeveldt]

I personally have absolutely no problems with giving verbals out there on the crcket pitch, it add to the tension, builds pressure and is (and always has been) a part of a tough sport. I dont think anyone really would like to see 22 emotionless robots ,

Well you're entitled to your opinion, but if you want theatrics, go to the theatre.. Playing sport for your country/club/college/whatever in my book is a privelage which shouldn't be abused.. You respect the guy at the other end and let him know who you are by letting the ball do the talking, because who is the fool when you get slapped for four?

 

[marc71178]

LOL. Where do you live mate? Alcatraz?

Cloud_****oo land.

 

[marc71178]

But soccer arguments are NOT filled with uncouth language.

You what?!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

[Goughy]

Oh yes, i've heard the occasional '****ing hell' comments....eddie made a comment about that too....so lemme clarify a bit. In footy, you have remarkable uncouthness over the last 10 years or so. Much much more than before. And even then, most of the comments arnt directed at anyone in particular.
I have no problem with a bowler looking skyward and yelling '****ing hell !!! aaaaaaaaah!' to vent his frustration. I do have a problem with them directing it at another player.
Huge difference. 90% of cricketing uncouthness is directed at a particular player. 90% of soccer uncouthness is directed at no one in particular.

In football the guy who is marking you is stood next to you. There is a massive amount of verbals going on, you just dont hear it as there are no microphones. The language and behaviour in soccer is far worse than in cricket, both to opponents and officials. Football was a bad area to go when trying to explain your point. As for the last ten year thing with regards to football, that is not true at all. I played over 10 years ago and the games were full of leg breaking threats and what will happen after the game etc

I agree that sledging is juvenile and purile and does not look good (though some are funny) but the comparisons you are making with shooting or theatening to shoot people is extreme.

However, in the grand scheme of things sledging or using curse words is not that big a deal. I do not like it, but you have to be able to deal with things you dont like in order to succeed. I tune out sledging when I play. The only reason people sledge is that it gets a reaction and affects the way the opponent plays. If all of us were able ban all of our pet peeves then there would nothing left to do.

You may not like sledging as I dont (though it seems for different reasons) but just because bad language and a bit of attitude offends you it must be understood that it is not a problem to many others.

 

[C_C]

You may not like sledging as I dont (though it seems for different reasons) but just because bad language and a bit of attitude offends you it must be understood that it is not a problem to many others.

It must then, also be understood, that death threats are seen as normal and very much legit in intimidatory process, by many people.
I dislike the stupid ***** in cricket where people cannot shut their traps. Its just that bloody simple and i seek to root it out from cricket.
This is a sport, not a life-n-death thing and people should maintain minium standards.
If you are gonna abuse, you should be banned for 6 months or a year.

 

[Mr Mxyzptlk]

Dude, kids have parents, sure. But not all parents PLAY cricket. Out on the field, as a youngster, my aim was to replicate my heroes... Jonty Rhodes, Sachin Tendulkar, Brian Lara... One of my mates was a tall lad who bowled pretty quick. He always emulated Ambrose. You don't expect kids to play cricket the way their parents played, do you? Out on the field, almost ALL kids will look to emulate their heroes. And I know that in my school team (which I coached during my vacation last year) one of the young boy thinks it is mandatory for him to tell batsmen that "he is in the side because he f*cks his captain"... Guess who his hero was. A certain tall Australian all time great bowler. To brush off such things as responsible behaviour in front of the camera when you are representing your country is ignorance of the highest order.

There's a filter for a reason. Use it.

 

[Goughy]

It must then, also be understood, that death threats are seen as normal and very much legit in intimidatory process, by many people.
I dislike the stupid ***** in cricket where people cannot shut their traps. Its just that bloody simple and i seek to root it out from cricket.

Death threats are ILLEGAL
Big difference.

This is a sport, not a life-n-death thing and people should maintain minium standards.
If you are gonna abuse, you should be banned for 6 months or a year.

Whose minimum standards? Yours?, Mine?, Andre Nel's?
Far too difficult to do. I dont like sledging but I hate the fact that there is currently so much interference in all walks of life by sensitive types who end up taking the edge of things and making things increasingly dull and regulated. I dont like sledging but I would not want to see it disappear.

 

[Mr Mxyzptlk]

And Craig goes - "He said that although he thinks I'm gutless when facing the short ball, he thinks I'd be a wonderful f*ck"

Filter for a reason. Use.

 

[Mr Mxyzptlk]

Different cultures, different interpretations for insults. Here in India, you can go to court and sue a guy for his fortune if he calls you a "b*stard".

Again. Stars are your friends. Use filter.