Ravi Ashwin vs Daniel Vettori

Perhaps a strange comparison, but I haven't started one of these threads for quite some time and feel like asking.

It occurred to me that, in terms of playing role, Ashwin and Vettori really aren't all that dissimilar. Both fingerspinners who can bat to a good standard, both of questionable use on non-helpful surfaces but still deserving of holding their spots for the ability to be economical. Both very good in the shorter formats by varying pace (though Ashwin is by far a more 'modern' spinner with the carrom ball, an innovation Vettori never really needed). Both seem to be relatively astute thinkers about the game

Obviously Ashwin turns it more than post-injury Vettori, whereas Dan has had more responsibility within the team and less helpful (home) surfaces to bowl on overall. I guess the utility of the comparison is undermined somewhat by Ashwin's relatively recent arrival on the scene, but how do you see the two of them stacking up?

No poll because I'm sick of voting at the moment.

Vettori always looked like he was enrolled in a Ph.D. program in Spatial Physics and was playing cricket on the side.

On a serious note, Vettori and Ashwin, as per your insight, have remarkably similar roles. I guess Ashwin has more to prove as of now, so will stick with Vettori for now. However, I think Ashwin should pass him by in another two years.

Vettori batted as high as 6 since NZ had ****ty batsmen. Ashwin probably won't make it above 7 and won't have a batting record as good as Vettori's if he has as long a career as Dan V because of that. Would have a better bowling record as long as he is only picked for tests within the SC.

Pretty hard to compare across sports tbh.

I think Vettori's biggest advantage in this comparison, outside of his relative longevity, is his ability to not be totally **** on unhelpful surfaces. Vettori very rarely got smashed, regardless of the conditions. He may not have run through teams as often as Ashwin can but he always seemed to play the holding role nicely. This was huge in an often average NZ attack.

As much as it pains me to say it, if Ashwin can defelop the skills to succeed (or at least be solid) in less friendly conditions then he may end up with the better record. He'll never be as valuable to India as Vettori was to NZ because he'll always have a more competent team around him but he's certainly got the ability to compile a record that's better than Dan's. Good fielder too iirc.

Only one man could drive the team bus.

Ravi is putting up some excellent overall numbers, but just looking at his bowling, averages 24 at home and 74 away. Of course, he has only played 4 away matches. I would definitely rate Vettori ahead of him.

Think Ashwin's the better bat though, mind you I could be giving him points for style so...

Ashwin is a bit one dimensional as a bowler, if the conditions don't suit him you would expect him to atleast stop the flow of runs and keep it tight, but he never does it, he fails miserably when the pitches aren't in his favour. Vettori can bowl according to the situation and although he might not be as devastating as Ashwin on turning pitches, he is not completely hammered when there is no turn available. I guess it depends a lot on the role they have to play in the team, on turning wickets, I would rate Ashwin better, on any other pitches, Vettori is a lot more dependable, both with the bat and ball.

They both also seem to have an eccentric style of batting that opposition captains have trouble setting fields to.

karan316 said:

Ashwin is a bit one dimensional as a bowler, if the conditions don't suit him you would expect him to atleast stop the flow of runs and keep it tight, but he never does it, he fails miserably when the pitches aren't in his favour. Vettori can bowl according to the situation and although he might not be as devastating as Ashwin on turning pitches, he is not completely hammered when there is no turn available. I guess it depends a lot on the role they have to play in the team, on turning wickets, I would rate Ashwin better, on any other pitches, Vettori is a lot more dependable, both with the bat and ball.

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Which reflects the difference between what's required of them from a team POV - NZ need a dependable spinner who can make things happen when conditions don't suit, while India need a guy who can take bags of wickets on home tracks and win them matches. I think CW on the whole can sometimes forget that succeeding when conditions suit is still not an easy feat, and players who can do it consistently at test level are still valuable. As for their batting, given Vettori only got to his batting peak late in his career I'd say Ashwin will have the better record and everything but they are both around the same level IMO.

Once every 9 or 10 overs Dan would get crazy wobble through the air. This would disconcert the batsman and make them lay off attacking the rest of his deliveries. This is an over simplification but he was deceptive in the air. Ashwin is less deceptive in the air and relies on turn and bounce more. Which perhaps is part of the reason for being a beast at home.
That said some of his away games were in Aussie which can be a graveyard for touring spinners. How the likes of Hauritz and Lyon do so well there I am not sure. Actually answering my own question possibly through drift and loop. Hauritz certainly got a ton of drift.

Hurricane said:

Once every 9 or 10 overs Dan would get crazy wobble through the air. This would disconcert the batsman and make them lay off attacking the rest of his deliveries. This is an over simplification but he was deceptive in the air. Ashwin is less deceptive in the air and relies on turn and bounce more. Which perhaps is part of the reason for being a beast at home.
That said some of his away games were in Aussie which can be a graveyard for touring spinners. How the likes of Hauritz and Lyon do so well there I am not sure. Actually answering my own question possibly through drift and loop. Hauritz certainly got a ton of drift.

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Still Australia's best spinner(currently). Don't know why he was ignored, any spinner might have a bad time while touring an SC team since the batsmen grow up playing quality spinners, shouldn't have given up on him.

Lyon is a support bowler among good bowlers. Every Indian bowler is a support bowler.

karan316 said:

Still Australia's best spinner(currently).

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No

Don't know why he was ignored, any spinner might have a bad time while touring an SC team since the batsmen grow up playing quality spinners, shouldn't have given up on him.

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Indeed, but Lyon being younger and probably slightly more suited to Australian conditions due to his ability to get extra bounce meant he was worth the investment

Lyon > Hauritz.

Crazily enough, he's barely playing state cricket these days. Everyone's so obsessed with bringing in young legspinners in the hope of being the next Warne that a decent performer like Hauritz gets sidelined completely. It's a shame, because before he got dropped he was such an improved bowler on what he was.

I mean, if it were for Lyon I could somewhat understand it. There was always something about Lyon that suggested he'd be Test quality. But Xavier Doherty and Michael Beer? Hilditch was nuts.

Maximas said:

No

Indeed, but Lyon being younger and probably slightly more suited to Australian conditions due to his ability to get extra bounce meant he was worth the investment

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He wasn't dropped for Lyon though...

I know, the original decision to drop Huauritz was ****ed, but I sort of meant that it was never really worth bringing Hauritz back once Lyon made his debut.

Ahh fair enough, agree with you completely on that.

Lyon is Hauritz with added bounce. Exactly what you want from an offie in Australia.

It depends.

Are they fighting to the death?

Who is wearing long sleeves?