Championless Trophy? - stop the bs and go

[four_or_six]

Absolutely agree with most of that. It's pretty hard for the players to decide I think, there's a lot for them to consider... especially those that are solid in the team. They must be getting a lot of conflicting advice.

Symonds has probably been a bit silly making these statements, and it didn't help that he said things before a few hours before the IPL auction whether he meant to or not.

And the younger players Watson, Hauritz, Harris etc who've said the things they've said... I think the enthusiasm is really refreshing and I respect them for being up-front about it, but maybe CA would have been best telling them not to say anything until the security reports are out. I doubt those players were trying to make a big statement, they were probably just answering a question honestly. The original quote from Watson said he'd go anywhere to play for his country, and yet I've seen articles since implying he'd ignore security concerns which I don't think was quite what he was saying.

I think it should be left to ECB/Cricket Australia etc to make a decision, it's very hard if the situation pits mates against mates and have some go and some stay behind. Not so much a problem if one or two skip it... but a problem if half the team sits out.

[chaminda_00]

The real issue is not that the players are worried about going to Pakistan. It is the accuracy of the information that is provided to them by the media and security personnal. Most of the stuff that are presented in the media in Australia and likley around other parts of world aren't very accurate.

Yeah in certain parts of Pakistan there is regular fighting and majority of Pakistan it isn't a regular occurance. Yeah it happens, but not very week or even once a month. For most of Pakistan things occur as often as the Japiur bombings or London bombings.

In the Australian media basically any muslim extremisted group is claimed to be part off or support the Taliban or Al Qaeda. Reality is that most have no connection and many are against these groups and have their own agenda.

If they really had any real concerns they should really get there facts straight about the situation and not really on poor media information or security information. Actually go and find out about what the real situation is before they make their stupid comments.

[WhatisRight]

Originally Posted by Burgey

To put it bluntly,what they're probably afraid of is this (doing the best I can as an outsider):

Every week there are reports about bombs going off in Pakistan - every week. Whether they're right or not I don't know, but I read them and I dare say the players do too. When it happened in the lead up to the elections and the test series, there were people first of all saying "It's not in the same cities as the players will be". Then there were bombings in the same areas, and it was "It was in a military intallation only". Then it was a civilian area, and it was "Well, they'll have the same security as a head of state". Then Bhutto was blown up and it was "Well, players have never been targetted before". The margin kept getting narrower and narrower.

It's in that context that the players are making their decisions. Last year I nearly had to go to Lahore for a case, and the very thought of it scared the **** out of me - maybe I'm a coward (we can't all be as tough as you guys over there who act like they fought their way up to Poizieres at the Somme every day for all your lives), but there's no way I'd go there, as an Australian, not now with the way things are.

I'm not trying to offend you in saying that, but it's the way I feel about it. I don't blame the players for feeling that way either. It's all well to say they didn't come home in 05 from England, and it's a valid point, but the fact is there weren't bombs going off over there each week at that time, like there apparently are in Pakistan at the moment.

So don't criticise players if they don't want to go, and don't call them ignorant either, because they're getting informed advice from security people, and no doubt they're reading the reports as well (unless you're suggesting the reports are made up).

I agree with you about how players are feeling with the current situation thats why there is such a fuss. But as far as the assassination goes, as dasa said you really need to get your facts right, but then again you will say thats what the australian media says so cant blame you or anyone but your media. I currently live in UK and whenever i hear the news or a certain documentry on how they portray pakistan as a country then i wouldnt wana go their myself becuase there is soo much exaggeration on the exact situation of the country, but when i went there i felt completely safe and laughed at how a media can change your minds soo quickly. So you cant really call me brave since i did get scared after listening to these news channels.

So now you must be thinking who should players really listen to, to get an idea of the exact situation, i think thats where the ICC comes in and thats exactly what they did, rather than listening to the PCB or any **** media trying to scare the hell out of players its better to send your own security delegation (CA security delegation), who can get an exact idea of the security arrangement and convince themselves and if they are satisfied then just say its fine if not then no. Thats as simple as that. As far as i remember the ICC did say there isnt any problem. So its better to listen to someone who has been there and has seen the situation.

[Burgey]

Originally Posted by chaminda_00

The real issue is not that the players are worried about going to Pakistan. It is the accuracy of the information that is provided to them by the media and security personnal. Most of the stuff that are presented in the media in Australia and likley around other parts of world aren't very accurate.

Yeah in certain parts of Pakistan there is regular fighting and majority of Pakistan it isn't a regular occurance. Yeah it happens, but not very week or even once a month. For most of Pakistan things occur as often as the Japiur bombings or London bombings.

In the Australian media basically any muslim extremisted group is claimed to be part off or support the Taliban or Al Qaeda. Reality is that most have no connection and many are against these groups and have their own agenda.

If they really had any real concerns they should really get there facts straight about the situation and not really on poor media information or security information. Actually go and find out about what the real situation is before they make their stupid comments.

That's spot on mate, the problem is though, your employer provides a security expert to do a recce on the place. I don't see how the players can be expected to do any more than rely on that expert. Whether his info is right based on what people who live in that part of the world know is a different thing, but I don't think you can realistically expect a 20-something year old young man to make his own inquiries in a way which will be better resourced than those of the board.
I don't know how breaking a country down into its regions necessarily works for someone going to that country as an outsider. If, say bombs went off in a short space of time in Adelaide, Sydney, Brisbane and Canberra, would someone overseas think to themselves, "Ok, I'm going to Melbourne so I'll be right?" Would that person's family think that? Or for that matter their employer? I wouldn't blame people for being reluctant to come here if that happened, no matter how safe I felt in my home town (mind you, you can never be too safe in Melbourne ).
I just think it's easy for us to consider it in the abstract. Would be much harder for the players.

[Burgey]

Originally Posted by WhatisRight

I agree with you about how players are feeling with the current situation thats why there is such a fuss. But as far as the assassination goes, as dasa said you really need to get your facts right, but then again you will say thats what the australian media says so cant blame you or anyone but your media. I currently live in UK and whenever i hear the news or a certain documentry on how they portray pakistan as a country then i wouldnt wana go their myself becuase there is soo much exaggeration on the exact situation of the country, but when i went there i felt completely safe and laughed at how a media can change your minds soo quickly. So you cant really call me brave since i did get scared after listening to these news channels.

So now you must be thinking who should players really listen to, to get an idea of the exact situation, i think thats where the ICC comes in and thats exactly what they did, rather than listening to the PCB or any **** media trying to scare the hell out of players its better to send your own security delegation (CA security delegation), who can get an exact idea of the security arrangement and convince themselves and if they are satisfied then just say its fine if not then no. Thats as simple as that. As far as i remember the ICC did say there isnt any problem. So its better to listen to someone who has been there and has seen the situation.

Good points too .
Just trying to think of it as a player - apart from (maybe) Ponting, has any member of the current side been there before? I imagine there'd be very few, so they have to get their info via media and via security.
T'would be good if the ICC stepped in, though I dunno if they'd ever have the stones to do so.

[WhatisRight]

By the way about the bhutto assassination. I would just like to tell you that she herself selected the type of security she wanted for the rally, musharraf was giving her alot more protection since in these political rallies you cant really take any risk. And even though they warned bhutto not to get out of her car becuase thats where it became very easy for the assassins to kill her since there were hundreds and hundreds of people surrounding the car and no matter what sort of security you have, its impossible to stop that many people rushing towards the car.

[Burgey]

I've no trouble accepting what yourself and Dasa have said about the Bhutto assasination, and apologise for misrepresenting that part of the argument . Without wanting to sound trite about it, what a stupid thing for her to do!!!!!

[four_or_six]

Originally Posted by Burgey

Good points too .
Just trying to think of it as a player - apart from (maybe) Ponting, has any member of the current side been there before? I imagine there'd be very few, so they have to get their info via media and via security.
T'would be good if the ICC stepped in, though I dunno if they'd ever have the stones to do so.

There's been two A-tours to Pakistan... in 2005 and 2007. Players that were on those include Watson, Johnson, Bracken, M Hussey, D Hussey, Haddin, White, Hopes, Cullen, Noffke, Voges, Ronchi aaaaaaaaaaand... Mick Lewis.

Edit: Though, admittedly, the interest in an A-tour is completely different... but in the sense of that they've actually been to the country then yes.

[Burgey]

Originally Posted by four_or_six

There's been two A-tours to Pakistan... in 2005 and 2007. Players that were on those include Watson, Johnson, Bracken, M Hussey, D Hussey, Haddin, White, Hopes, Cullen, Noffke, Voges, Ronchi aaaaaaaaaaand... Mick Lewis.

Edit: Though, admittedly, the interest in an A-tour is completely different... but in the sense of that they've actually been to the country then yes.

Very good point that - i actually wrote about that back in February or March - must be late, I forgot about it!!!
Cheers. Doug Bollinger also went iirc.
Mick Lewis - oh the past - leave me alone!!!

[WhatisRight]

Originally Posted by Burgey

Good points too .
Just trying to think of it as a player - apart from (maybe) Ponting, has any member of the current side been there before? I imagine there'd be very few, so they have to get their info via media and via security.
T'would be good if the ICC stepped in, though I dunno if they'd ever have the stones to do so.

The ICC is trying its best to convince players and teams to come to pakistan. whatever decision they come to i will respect that becuase at the end of the day they will also be blamed IF anything goes wrong. So they wont take any decision untill they are completely satisfied and if theres any small little doubt they have they wont allow the tour to take place in pak any further.

[four_or_six]

Originally Posted by Burgey

Very good point that - i actually wrote about that back in February or March - must be late, I forgot about it!!!
Cheers. Doug Bollinger also went iirc.

Yep, he's there on the scorecards from 2007.

[Burgey]

Originally Posted by four_or_six

Yep, he's there on the scorecards from 2007.

Had a great series over there. Really announced himself for the next season.

Wonder if that record on the subcontinent will put him in good stead for Indian selection (in the team I mean, I think he's a moral for the squad barring injury)?

[four_or_six]

Originally Posted by Burgey

Had a great series over there. Really announced himself for the next season.

Wonder if that record on the subcontinent will put him in good stead for Indian selection (in the team I mean, I think he's a moral for the squad barring injury)?

Would think Noffke is ahead of him in the queue for now, tbh.

[Son Of Coco]

Originally Posted by Aamir Alauddin

What's the link between my post and the link you pasted in your post?

If you've got trouble making the link (and reading the rest of your posts I suspected you might) then it's not worth getting into a discussion about.

[WhatisRight]

Nathan Hauritz, the Australian offspinner, has echoed Shane Watson's feelings on the Champions Trophy in Pakistan, saying he didn't care where he played as long he got to represent his country.

Watson had said he'd play anywhere but some Australian players, including Andrew Symonds, expressed their reservations on touring Pakistan, which had two bomb attacks on its cities in the past two weeks.

However Hauritz, who was named in Australia's 30 probables for the Champions Trophy, said getting the chance to play for the national team didn't happen all the time. "You can go to a number of places in this world that are dangerous," Hauritz, who last played for Australia in 2004, told the Sydney-based Daily Telegraph. "But at the end of the day it's not my call and it's up to Cricket Australia. I'm sure they will do everything they can to make sure it's safe.''


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So thats exactly what i have been saying. Thats the sort of thing i wana see from players, they should trust what there security delegation decide.