Lions tour 2025

[RossTaylorsBox]

Lol c'mon

 

[Uppercut]

Fair enough, but there's Irish and there's Irish, isn't there?

Legally speaking I'm Irish, hold the passport and everything, but I couldn't with a straight face claim to be as culturally Irish as someone who was born and raised there.

But it’s a different thing for you to say this about yourself. If you had an Irish parent and made your home in Ireland, and someone tried to tell you that you weren’t a ‘real’ Irishman because you like cricket and have the wrong accent, that person would be a ****. Maybe you need to be inside the gate to fully understand the effect of this kind of gatekeeping.

Or if someone was half-Korean and grew up in the UK, would you go around telling them they weren’t a ‘real’ Korean? They might not feel much of a connection to that part of their heritage, but that’s not for you to decide. Policing national identities in this way is just really sinister behaviour.

 

[Fuller Pilch]

"Tradition" is likely the correct answer, yeah.

It's the last of the great tours in any commonwealth(ish) sport now, isn't it?

The good news (not for Australia and Argentina) is that NZ and SA are going to resume proper tours to each others' countries in coming years. It looks like there will no Rugby Championship in 2026, 28, and 30

 

[Molehill]

But it’s a different thing for you to say this about yourself. If you had an Irish parent and made your home in Ireland, and someone tried to tell you that you weren’t a ‘real’ Irishman because you like cricket and have the wrong accent, that person would be a ****. Maybe you need to be inside the gate to fully understand the effect of this kind of gatekeeping.

Or if someone was half-Korean and grew up in the UK, would you go around telling them they weren’t a ‘real’ Korean? They might not feel much of a connection to that part of their heritage, but that’s not for you to decide. Policing national identities in this way is just really sinister behaviour.

My only issue with Hansen really was that he'd already played for Aus U20's. I guess he has more right to play for this team than some others.

Similar to you, I've got 2 nephews who have lived in France all their lives. Welsh mother, German father. Fwiw, they consider themselves very French.

 

[BoyBrumby]

But it’s a different thing for you to say this about yourself. If you had an Irish parent and made your home in Ireland, and someone tried to tell you that you weren’t a ‘real’ Irishman because you like cricket and have the wrong accent, that person would be a ****. Maybe you need to be inside the gate to fully understand the effect of this kind of gatekeeping.

Or if someone was half-Korean and grew up in the UK, would you go around telling them they weren’t a ‘real’ Korean? They might not feel much of a connection to that part of their heritage, but that’s not for you to decide. Policing national identities in this way is just really sinister behaviour.

I mean, I wouldn't say anyone isn't a real anything, because I'm not a **** (or at least not that much of one) and I don't think I'm policing national identities, anyone can feel a connection to anywhere they have links to, but the fact that Hansen represented Aus at U20 level would suggest he considers himself at least partly Australian, wouldn't it?

Not to say I wouldn't select him, or at least not for that reason anyway.

 

[Uppercut]

Yeah I mean I wouldn’t claim that he’s playing for Ireland out of a deep sense of Irishness. Just that he has the right to do it without being treated as some kind of imposter. The rugby team includes Ulster, so we’ve had players who very pointedly consider themselves un-Irish.

I don’t really believe that playing for Australia U20s actually matters to anyone. Declan Rice played for Ireland at senior level and I’ve never once heard an English person even mention it.

 

[Howe_zat]

Acting like you know someone's identity from the right hand text box on Wikipedia is just really ****ing rude, it doesnt really matter what point you think youre trying to make.

 

[Furball]

My only issue with Hansen really was that he'd already played for Aus U20's.

I don't think a decision made as a teenager should be allowed to negatively impact his rugby career.

Particularly when it comes to age group sport, I doubt the IRFU were even aware Hansen existed when he was representing Australia.

 

[Furball]

I mean, I wouldn't say anyone isn't a real anything, because I'm not a **** (or at least not that much of one) and I don't think I'm policing national identities, anyone can feel a connection to anywhere they have links to, but the fact that Hansen represented Aus at U20 level would suggest he considers himself at least partly Australian, wouldn't it?

Not to say I wouldn't select him, or at least not for that reason anyway.

Unless Hansen rejected a call up for Ireland when he represented Australia, I don't see how his playing for the latter is relevant.

 

[Molehill]

I don't think a decision made as a teenager should be allowed to negatively impact his rugby career.

Particularly when it comes to age group sport, I doubt the IRFU were even aware Hansen existed when he was representing Australia.

I think most of us know what nationality we are at that stage and which country we'd like to represent. But I accept that things can change in private that may have affected his outlook.

 

[BoyBrumby]

Unless Hansen rejected a call up for Ireland when he represented Australia, I don't see how his playing for the latter is relevant.

Well, it's not in itself, but Hansen was a Brumby for about four seasons and never quite nailed down a starting spot for them even, so it's a fair guess he had a lot of wings ahead of him in the Wobblies pecking order.

That being so (with the qualifier that I haven't heard him say anything on the subject and I'm not clutching my pearls screaming "Oh, a plastic paddy; won't someone please think of the children?") it could be read that he made a pragmatic decision to sign for Connacht in 2021 and, given he was in the test side ~a year later, who's to say he didn't make the right call?

 

[the big bambino]

It was probably a calculated decision to further his career and nothing more noble than that. Much the same way as you weigh up the best option when deciding on which club you'd play for.

 

[Molehill]

It was probably a calculated decision to further his career and nothing more noble than that. Much the same way as you weigh up the best option when deciding on which club you'd play for.

Yeah, almost definitely this. And the fact he had a form of Irish passport (I presume) gave him an option that others wouldn't necessarily have.

 

[GotSpin]

I think a tour to Argentina would be banging. I've visited the country once albeit to BA and the southern Andes. They do like their rugby tradition in Argentina too.

The only problem would be finding provincial teams that are strong enough to play. I think it would work better as a South American tour in general

 

[Chin Music]

The only problem would be finding provincial teams that are strong enough to play. I think it would work better as a South American tour in general

It's a fair point. I suppose they could play one or two select XVs along with the Jaguares. There are a few players from Uruguay who play in France, but yeah it wouldn't be easy to get games of appropriate standard in between.

 

[Ali TT]

You'd probably have to add it to another tour - but that would mean shortening the other leg. Perhaps a tour game and test in Argentina followed by two less provincial games eg in Australia, then three tests. Similarly could do something similar with Pacific Island teams alongside the NZ tour.

 

[ripper868]

The article below is on Hansen before his first match vs Aus for Ireland in 2022. There's a line about the anthems and that he was trying to learn it etc etc, so clearly he felt strongly Irish from being a wee lad and just hasn't taken the professional opportunity that came with signing with Connacht... I don't begrudge him taking the chance to play for Ireland, many would and should take these chances, great team, great country and think most people wish him the best, same with Bundee Aki and NZ, or half of Japans team from RSA/AUS/NZ/Pacific Islands, but lets not pretend he 'chose' Ireland out of some deep feeling for the country when he didn't know the anthem at 23 years old. I'm not going to claim he doesn't have strong feelings about being Irish, he may well do, but even I, a non Irish Aussie country kid knew Ireland's Call by the time I was 13.

Ireland v Australia: Wing Mack Hansen says switching allegiance was 'best decision of my life'

Mack Hansen says switching allegiance from Australia to Ireland was the best decision of his life and career as he prepares to face his country of birth.

www.bbc.co.uk

As for selection to the Lions, if you're playing for one of the 4 nations, you're eligible, regardless if you're story is like Mack Hansen's through mothers blood, or Gibson-Park through father time (former Māori All Blacks rep ftr), saying something like 'purebloods only' is stupid from Ole Willie John Mac

Tour to Argentina/Americas would be brilliant. The Argies are quite good at home, especially in Dublin .
The only thing about extra tours, is does that then make it 16 years between drinks for Aus/SA/NZ?
I think if the Lions were on every 2/3 years it'd become a bit too gimmicky.

 

[ripper868]

Force to win by 22 this weekend btw.

 

[Ali TT]

The article below is on Hansen before his first match vs Aus for Ireland in 2022. There's a line about the anthems and that he was trying to learn it etc etc, so clearly he felt strongly Irish from being a wee lad and just hasn't taken the professional opportunity that came with signing with Connacht... I don't begrudge him taking the chance to play for Ireland, many would and should take these chances, great team, great country and think most people wish him the best, same with Bundee Aki and NZ, or half of Japans team from RSA/AUS/NZ/Pacific Islands, but lets not pretend he 'chose' Ireland out of some deep feeling for the country when he didn't know the anthem at 23 years old. I'm not going to claim he doesn't have strong feelings about being Irish, he may well do, but even I, a non Irish Aussie country kid knew Ireland's Call by the time I was 13.

Ireland v Australia: Wing Mack Hansen says switching allegiance was 'best decision of my life'

Mack Hansen says switching allegiance from Australia to Ireland was the best decision of his life and career as he prepares to face his country of birth.

www.bbc.co.uk

As for selection to the Lions, if you're playing for one of the 4 nations, you're eligible, regardless if you're story is like Mack Hansen's through mothers blood, or Gibson-Park through father time (former Māori All Blacks rep ftr), saying something like 'purebloods only' is stupid from Ole Willie John Mac

Tour to Argentina/Americas would be brilliant. The Argies are quite good at home, especially in Dublin .
The only thing about extra tours, is does that then make it 16 years between drinks for Aus/SA/NZ?
I think if the Lions were on every 2/3 years it'd become a bit too gimmicky.

As said, I think you'd have to merge it with one of the other tours.

Personally this nationality thing is a red herring to me. If they play for a home nation, they play for the Lions. Would the host sides have to drop any of their Pacific Islanders when facing the Lions?

 

[Uppercut]

The article below is on Hansen before his first match vs Aus for Ireland in 2022. There's a line about the anthems and that he was trying to learn it etc etc, so clearly he felt strongly Irish from being a wee lad and just hasn't taken the professional opportunity that came with signing with Connacht... I don't begrudge him taking the chance to play for Ireland, many would and should take these chances, great team, great country and think most people wish him the best, same with Bundee Aki and NZ, or half of Japans team from RSA/AUS/NZ/Pacific Islands, but lets not pretend he 'chose' Ireland out of some deep feeling for the country when he didn't know the anthem at 23 years old. I'm not going to claim he doesn't have strong feelings about being Irish, he may well do, but even I, a non Irish Aussie country kid knew Ireland's Call by the time I was 13.

Ireland v Australia: Wing Mack Hansen says switching allegiance was 'best decision of my life'

Mack Hansen says switching allegiance from Australia to Ireland was the best decision of his life and career as he prepares to face his country of birth.

www.bbc.co.uk

As for selection to the Lions, if you're playing for one of the 4 nations, you're eligible, regardless if you're story is like Mack Hansen's through mothers blood, or Gibson-Park through father time (former Māori All Blacks rep ftr), saying something like 'purebloods only' is stupid from Ole Willie John Mac

Tour to Argentina/Americas would be brilliant. The Argies are quite good at home, especially in Dublin .
The only thing about extra tours, is does that then make it 16 years between drinks for Aus/SA/NZ?
I think if the Lions were on every 2/3 years it'd become a bit too gimmicky.

Ah mate. Thinking familiarity with Ireland’s Call is a measure of Irishness would get your passport revoked. It’s like asking you to sing Australia’s last Eurovision entry as a citizenship test.