Road to Euro 2024

[wpdavid]

I was wondering the other day whether Walker is England's best ever right back.

 

[sledger]

He probaby is tbh.

 

[grecian]

I was wondering the other day whether Walker is England's best ever right back.

no contest in my time, didn't see Cohen or Armfield obviously.

 

[wpdavid]

no contest in my time, didn't see Cohen or Armfield obviously.

Likewise. They did play in my lifetime, but Cohen was before I took an interest, and Armstrong was when I was a toddler. The general consensus about Cohen seems to be that he was solid defensively, but not as good as our other WC winning full-back, Ray Wilson. I remember Moore's biography, which I tend to regard as the final word in such matters, suggesting that Wilson was almost up there with the big 3 (Moore, Charlton and Banks) in terms of being a world class player. Whereas Cohen didn't rank as highly. Armfield always seemed to feature in articles about England's all-time finest XI, so I've always assumed that he was our best ever RB. I get the impression that he was relatively cultured in the context of when he played, but must have been defensively sound. Whether he could have kept Mbappe and Vinicius Jnr quiet is perhaps debateable, but I suppose we just don't know. Thereafter, we had generations of mediocre right backs; for some reason, our left backs were usually better. Until you get to the present day. And it just struck me the other day that we were probably watching England best ever in his chosen position, which isn't something that happens very often. Perhaps Bellingham will eventually feature in an all-time England side. Perhaps Kane does, what with being our top scorer and all that, although that doesn't feel quite right really. And I suppose Walker's pre-eminence has become more obvious now that he has seen off Trippier, Alexander-Arnold and James as England's number 2.

 

[grecian]

The fact that someone kept someone else out may not be the great argument, considering the manager after all Taylor decided Andy Sinton was better than Chris Waddle, and Ramsey preferring Cohen may have just been an aberration, but yeah walker has kept out world-class players, he has pretty much everything a world-class wing-back/full/back.

 

[wpdavid]

The fact that someone kept someone else out may not be the great argument, considering the manager after all Taylor decided Andy Sinton was better than Chris Waddle, and Ramsey preferring Cohen may have just been an aberration, but yeah walker has kept out world-class players, he has pretty much everything a world-class wing-back/full/back.

Yeah, that's fair. And I've never read anything saying that Cohen kept anyone better out of the 1966 side.

 

[grecian]

Yeah, that's fair. Just one minor thing, in case my previous comments about Cohen and Wilson were misleading. Cohen didn't keep Wilson out of the side, as Wilson played left back in the same saide as Cohen, and I'm not aware that Cohen kept anyone better out of the 1966 side.

I thought we were talking Cohen over Armfield?

 

[wpdavid]

I thought we were talking Cohen over Armfield?

Oh, I see. My mistake. I don't know actually. I thought Armfield was just getting on a bit when Cohen replaced him, but perhaps you're right.

EDIT
No, you are right. Armfield was only 30 during the 1966 WC. Turns out he'd had a few injuries which gave Cohen his chance, and Ramsey stuck with a winning side. Maybe similar to Greaves not getting back in after his injury.

 

[BoyBrumby]

The fact that someone kept someone else out may not be the great argument, considering the manager after all Taylor decided Andy Sinton was better than Chris Waddle, and Ramsey preferring Cohen may have just been an aberration, but yeah walker has kept out world-class players, he has pretty much everything a world-class wing-back/full/back.

Tangentially related, Taylor also preferred more or less anyone (I mean, Keith Curle, seriously...) to arguably the best England right back I've seen in my watching career who isn't called Kyle Walker, Paul Parker.

Didn't have the longest England career, but was awesome at Italia 90.

 

[grecian]

Oh, I see. My mistake. I don't know actually. I thought Armfield was just getting on a bit when Cohen replaced him, but perhaps you're right.

EDIT
No, you are right. Armfield was only 30 during the 1966 WC. Turns out he'd had a few injuries which gave Cohen his chance, and Ramsey stuck with a winning side. Maybe similar to Greaves not getting back in after his injury.

Yeah apparently called best Right-back in the world In 62, and according to wiki, best right-back in Europe 62-64, he clearly was quite good. Comparing across eras as always though pretty hard.

 

[grecian]

Tangentially related, Taylor also preferred more or less anyone (I mean, Keith Curle, seriously...) to arguably the best England right back I've seen in my watching career who isn't called Kyle Walker, Paul Parker.

Didn't have the longest England career, but was awesome at Italia 90.

Yeah Parker was alright, but as I will say to my dying day Taylor is the worst england manager ever, and hard to justify most of his opinions.

he actually managed one of those celeb things, which had behind the scenes stuff, and though some boyband member was clearly so much more talented than some Hollyoaks bloke, he picked the hollyoaks bloke for his effort, they lost and it pretty much explained taylor as a manager.

 

[GIMH]

Yeah Parker was alright, but as I will say to my dying day Taylor is the worst england manager ever, and hard to justify most of his opinions.

he actually managed one of those celeb things, which had behind the scenes stuff, and though some boyband member was clearly so much more talented than some Hollyoaks bloke, he picked the hollyoaks bloke for his effort, they lost and it pretty much explained taylor as a manager.

Seemed to me a classic case of what him trying to stick with what worked in Division 3 or whatever as he went up the levels and thus failing to adapt.

End of the day the FA shouldn’t have been so hasty to see Robson off but hey ho

 

[Skipper Pup]

I think Pickford is far less of a problem than the likes of Maguire & Henderson. Pickford is a heck of a lot busier than someone like Ramsdale is going to be because he's played with a dreadful Everton team so he will likely commit more errors although not necessarily a bigger proportion per invovlements. He's played well enough with them for long enough and of course his use of the ball at feet is highly competent. Pope, is probably a better handler/positioner, but is awful with the ball at feet as at Brighton the other week and when he got sent off in the league cup semi.

That's why I said GK in general. I don't think any of them are good enough.

Pope is probably the guy I'd trust the most of the lot, the other two are liabilities.

 

[Skipper Pup]

Obviously Southgate not picking Rico Henry even with Shaw injured is his most outrageous decision.

My issue is the obvious double standards and favoritism with Southgate's selections.

You can't drop Sterling for poor club form and use that as justification but then say Maguire's club form is irrelevant because of what he's done for England in the past. Sterling has been a huge contributor over the years and has actually managed to get back on track so far this season.

Any player involved in set up would be questioning the meritocracy of the entire show due to Maguire being in the squad.

Don't get me started on Henderson who has basically semi-retired now. Even as a LFC fan who admires what the bloke did for our club, I think he's got no business being in that English team, let alone starting games.

The quality of the Saudi league is arguably lower than the Championship. Picking Hendo invalidates all Southgate's historical non-selections from other European leagues (Tomori and Sancho the obvious examples).

 

[Howe_zat]

After losing to Greece again, Ireland are officially out of qualifying proper for the Euros. They can still make it in via playoffs, which are based on Nations League placings.

The odd bit is that if Greece qualify as second in group B ahead of the Netherlands, Netherlands will beat Ireland to a playoff place becasue they are in a higher Nations League spot. So the best thing for Ireland to do to get to Euro 2024 is actually to let Netherlands beat them by as much as possible to get them into 2nd place in the group, thus forcing the Netherlands out of the playoff spots and giving themselves a chance at making the playoffs instead.

 

[Furball]

So the best thing for Ireland to do to get to Euro 2024 is actually to let Netherlands beat them by as much as possible

As if Ireland have much of a choice in the result.

 

[Magrat Garlick]

After losing to Greece again, Ireland are officially out of qualifying proper for the Euros. They can still make it in via playoffs, which are based on Nations League placings.

The odd bit is that if Greece qualify as second in group B ahead of the Netherlands, Netherlands will beat Ireland to a playoff place becasue they are in a higher Nations League spot. So the best thing for Ireland to do to get to Euro 2024 is actually to let Netherlands beat them by as much as possible to get them into 2nd place in the group, thus forcing the Netherlands out of the playoff spots and giving themselves a chance at making the playoffs instead.

i kinda like the new format, that there is a way to qualify even if you messed up the first three games of the group, but this is a glaring problem

 

[wpdavid]

No mention of Wales beating Croatia last night? More than decent result, that one.

And Scotland have qualified with two games to spare?

 

[BoyBrumby]

Must be a while since the Sweaties qualified for a tournament before Albion. Maybe 82? Know we contrived to lose to Romania, Switzerland and Norway and had to beat (fellow qualfiers) Hungary home and away to make it, and think the home game was our last fixture

Two classic moments in that qualifying: "Your boys took a hell of a beating" and Brooking wedging it in the stanchion in Budapest.

Good result for yer Taffs though, yeah. If they hadn't lost at home to Armenia they'd be looking very well placed.

Croatia also lost to Turkey on Friday, didn't they? Be hilarious if they jib it; not a footballing nation I've ever warmed too.

 

[Howe_zat]

Good result for yer Taffs though, yeah. If they hadn't lost at home to Armenia they'd be looking very well placed.

Croatia also lost to Turkey on Friday, didn't they? Be hilarious if they jib it; not a footballing nation I've ever warmed too.

Armenia will probably have a sizeable say in it since they next play Wales in Armenia before travelling to Croatia last. Croatia have a much easier time of it than Wales since the have a game against Latvia to come while Wales host already qualified Turkey.